The true pick 5 story.

[MichiganDale]

Wow, you just made my day, Max and I thank you.   Would be great if you could stop by Balmoral in April.   As for Michigan, the ship is taking on water - FAST.   Governor tried as he could to keep the legislature particularly the Senate from voting on a racing friendly bill.   It didn't work as some Senators in the wee hours of the morning caucused and demanded a vote - a vote that passed as it did in the House overwhelmingly.  Over 80% of the legislature voted in favor.  The Governor then waited til the 11th hour and pocket vetoed it.   Legislation was/is dead.   A supposed meeting was to take place between horse racing officials and the Governor and it never played out.   The Governor is insulated by former Lt. Governor Posthumus and the current Attorney General who is anti-racing and is using the 'excuse' that the bill was unconstitutional.  Effectively they're telling 80% of the legislators that they're stupid and that what they enacted didn't matter.   Wouldn't you think the question of constitutionality should rightfully be played out in court?   You just can't get to the man himself to talk.  There seems to be no help in his new budget for racing, he's really turned his back on the industry.
In terms of EVER getting slots, its a mega longshot due to Proposal 1 from 2004. 
Recently, I floated the idea, outrageous as it may be that the horsemen try and build a relationship with the Little River Tribe to jointly open the casino/racetrack in Muskegon.   Such a 'partnership' just might work since it would accomplish two things - horsemen get to race on a track that is already there AND the tribe gets is casino.  The Governor just might buy into it.  I'll keep you posted.  A lot of the ITS discussion is Ohio and Illinois oriented and thats fine so I don't often get into the Michigan situation here.   Good hearing from you and thanks again for your kind words.   

[Max R]

Wow, you just made my day, Max and I thank you.   Would be great if you could stop by Balmoral in April.   As for Michigan, the ship is taking on water - FAST.   Governor tried as he could to keep the legislature particularly the Senate from voting on a racing friendly bill.   It didn't work as some Senators in the wee hours of the morning caucused and demanded a vote - a vote that passed as it did in the House overwhelmingly.  Over 80% of the legislature voted in favor.  The Governor then waited til the 11th hour and pocket vetoed it.   Legislation was/is dead.   A supposed meeting was to take place between horse racing officials and the Governor and it never played out.   The Governor is insulated by former Lt. Governor Posthumus and the current Attorney General who is anti-racing and is using the 'excuse' that the bill was unconstitutional.  Effectively they're telling 80% of the legislators that they're stupid and that what they enacted didn't matter.   Wouldn't you think the question of constitutionality should rightfully be played out in court?   You just can't get to the man himself to talk.  There seems to be no help in his new budget for racing, he's really turned his back on the industry.
In terms of EVER getting slots, its a mega longshot due to Proposal 1 from 2004. 
Recently, I floated the idea, outrageous as it may be that the horsemen try and build a relationship with the Little River Tribe to jointly open the casino/racetrack in Muskegon.   Such a 'partnership' just might work since it would accomplish two things - horsemen get to race on a track that is already there AND the tribe gets is casino.  The Governor just might buy into it.  I'll keep you posted.  A lot of the ITS discussion is Ohio and Illinois oriented and thats fine so I don't often get into the Michigan situation here.   Good hearing from you and thanks again for your kind words.

Thanks Dale. Glad You are doing what you can, but it seems more of the same back room politics.

You're a good man, but how sad this entire Michigan situation has become. I spent 12 years out there watching fabulous harness racing. And now this.

Thanks for the update Dale. And fight the good fight. You never know.

[ira smolin]

Dale thanks    bobby makes his own choices    and he can't read a program     never ask him for a winner.    Last winner he bb gave was 9 months ago.     Woodall thinks they are fixing      races i just see young guys    trying hard .     Its family    hate that people read this and       believe it  haven't you ever had any trouble     with people cause     of what they read on that       dump.   The irb    takes it serious and it   causes people trouble      and I'm not talking about just bobby.

[Max R]

Dale thanks    bobby makes his own choices    and he can't read a program     never ask him for a winner.    Last winner he bb gave was 9 months ago.     Woodall thinks they are fixing      races i just see young guys    trying hard .     Its family    hate that people read this and       believe it  haven't you ever had any trouble     with people cause     of what they read on that       dump.   The irb    takes it serious and it   causes people trouble      and I'm not talking about just bobby.

Hello Ira . Betty asked me how you were doing last night after we had the privilege of watching St. Elmo Hero win while enjoying dinner in Springfield. Of course we both could not help think of you and Bobby watching the horse win with Mike Oosting. I have mixed emotions about that entire Elmo situation. I honestly believe things happen for a reason

Dale, I have been doing a bit of research , despite a heavy workload in Indy, and your idea regarding the horsemen  building some type of relationship with The Little River Tribe.  I spoke to some knowledgeable fellas  and got some interesting reactions. Sadly, the consensus seems to be that the Little River Tribe simply will not be on the same page with the horsemen when all is said and done. I probably do not need to elaborate. You stated that your idea was somewhat outrageous, but I honestly and truly disagree. I find it fascinating. An accord between the horsemen and The Tribe makes all the sense in the world. In fact, I love the idea. But, every issue consists of two sides. In this case, its almost like two worlds. What is it going to take for Little River to cooperate
with the good people of Michigan and their horsemen?  I really hope Im wrong, but I fear the the idea is doomed for failure. Somtimes I think that things just never go right in Ottawa and thats where the problem lies here. Im just not sure their Tribal Council is going to want any part of such an arrangement. In other words Dale, while I love the thought of this, both myself and others dont see it getting off the ground.. One can only hope that Im wrong, because the plan is logical and sensible

Dale, you said you had stated  that you floated the idea of such a partnership around. How far have you been able to get ? I was curious to see if you contacted Governor Snyder on the possibilities.  I see this as something that can work, but what are the chances of the Honorable Mr Snyder getting on board ? Somehow, some way I see him as an obstacle here . And why would I think otherwise ? Every time it appears that Michigan has something in place, we know the sad results. In all honesty Dale, where do you see Michigan racing a year from now ? Thats really what we need to focus on. Im afraid if the game fails in Michigan , the entire racing industry suffers. And you  are too proud of a man to admit it, but I know it has to hurt. So the drama continues. But where are we ?  As for Little River, I highly suggest that you go forward in trying to make this happen , but I am so pessimistic about this happening that you wouldn't believe it . What a sad siuation. I guess life goes on, but the entire Michigan racing story is painful.

On a much happier note, I see that you will be running the show at the Fair this year. Now that is good news. I think we can all be confident that things will finally be run the right way in Ottawa. I look forwad to you implementing some of your ideas, and finally having that Fair be  what it was meant to be.
I hate to even bring up the Beer Tent issue, but where does that stand ? The lunacy surrounding that entire nightmare is just so unrealistic that many of us were considering not even making an appearance last year. I would be curious to know where things stand at the present time. Like I say, the entire issue is disturbing. I know that you went the distance in your battle last year and fell short. It pains me and others just thinking about that. I wish you well, and of course we can only hope the good Michigan horseman are here for many years to come. It never should have come to this.

[ira smolin]

Carryover     tonight. Solid single   in there!  Come early
watch    warm
ups!

[MichiganDale]

Max - Thanks for the comments.   While I indicated the idea of a pact with a tribe may be 'outrageous' I meant to most I figure it would be seen as outrageous but to me it could work if both sides were getting some benefit out of the arrangement and done right, without pre-conceived notions I think it could work....you see, the Little River Tribe has a problem with Governor Snyder too and by working together both the horseman's problems AND the tribe's problems might be better addressed....that particular tribe owns the property where a 5/8 track is still there though the grandstand is gone.  In addition, IF it came down to a vote under Proposal 1 to put slots at a track, it would surely pass in that given area - the people want the casino there for a host of reasons but the Governor is balking.   If the Governor saw a chance to be a hero to everybody other than the usual handful of anti-gambling forces, he might just buy into it and both the tribe and racing could benefit from each other.   That's my thinking.

The Beer Tent?   My God, you remember that debacle?   The Township torpedoed the Fair Board and I have reason to believe some certain people played a role in the die being cast due to their strong anti-alcohol sentiment.....the presentation to the Township Board and their reaction was ridiculous.   We were spitting to the wind, wasting our time.  I don't see it happening anytime soon.   Between the former Fair Leader and the Township Supervisor we were toast.   Must remember where Holland is - somehow they think a Beer Tent will dramatically alter the family friendly atmospher of a County Fair - yes we were actually told that point blank!   Township trustees 'didn't want to see their grandkids walking past a Beer Tent' (God forbid....these people lead sheltered lives!)
I am not on the Fair Board at this time, only have been asked to be Race Director and there's a ton of work to be done for that one big night and my goal is to make it memorable.  I want everyone to feel warmly welcomed and not like they're doing us a favor to be there.
About two years ago Tina Seekman and I made a decision favorable to the horseman that ran contrary to the former Speed Superintendent and caught all sorts of grief over it.   I got told face to face "If those horsemen friends of yours don't like it the way we do things, they can go someplace else."   Great attitude, huh?
   We will have some nice changes coming to make the event, I hope, both fan and horseman friendly.....I continue to seek input from horseman and take it seriously. 

[Max R]

Max - Thanks for the comments.   While I indicated the idea of a pact with a tribe may be 'outrageous' I meant to most I figure it would be seen as outrageous but to me it could work if both sides were getting some benefit out of the arrangement and done right, without pre-conceived notions I think it could work....you see, the Little River Tribe has a problem with Governor Snyder too and by working together both the horseman's problems AND the tribe's problems might be better addressed....that particular tribe owns the property where a 5/8 track is still there though the grandstand is gone.  In addition, IF it came down to a vote under Proposal 1 to put slots at a track, it would surely pass in that given area - the people want the casino there for a host of reasons but the Governor is balking.   If the Governor saw a chance to be a hero to everybody other than the usual handful of anti-gambling forces, he might just buy into it and both the tribe and racing could benefit from each other.   That's my thinking.

The Beer Tent?   My God, you remember that debacle?   The Township torpedoed the Fair Board and I have reason to believe some certain people played a role in the die being cast due to their strong anti-alcohol sentiment.....the presentation to the Township Board and their reaction was ridiculous.   We were spitting to the wind, wasting our time.  I don't see it happening anytime soon.   Between the former Fair Leader and the Township Supervisor we were toast.   Must remember where Holland is - somehow they think a Beer Tent will dramatically alter the family friendly atmospher of a County Fair - yes we were actually told that point blank!   Township trustees 'didn't want to see their grandkids walking past a Beer Tent' (God forbid....these people lead sheltered lives!)
I am not on the Fair Board at this time, only have been asked to be Race Director and there's a ton of work to be done for that one big night and my goal is to make it memorable.  I want everyone to feel warmly welcomed and not like they're doing us a favor to be there.
About two years ago Tina Seekman and I made a decision favorable to the horseman that ran contrary to the former Speed Superintendent and caught all sorts of grief over it.   I got told face to face "If those horsemen friends of yours don't like it the way we do things, they can go someplace else."   Great attitude, huh?
   We will have some nice changes coming to make the event, I hope, both fan and horseman friendly.....I continue to seek input from horseman and take it seriously.

Thanks for clarifying that Tribal situation up. Was that 5/8ths track ever operational and what was the name ? I seem to recall a track there quite a few years ago, but Im not sure that was it. If its the one Im thinking of , I hope they do reopen because they owe me a lot of money...lol

The idea makes sense. And that means it probably wont happen Dale. Snyder will find a way to nix it. Such are things in Michigan these days. Anyway, running off to my fifth meeting o the day. It never ends.

Oh, by the way we were discussing some of the amatuer racing schedules the other night at the club. Your name was actually mentioned and I was thinking of that Big M night. Great memories for all of us

I'll tell you, it would be nice to see the " Big Guy " hop back in the bike one of these days. That would be a thrill for the whole gang.

What say you Dale ?

[MichiganDale]

The "big guy" I'm happy to say isn't quite as "big" anymore.  If you  get Hoofbeats and save them, page 11 in the Youthbeats section of the December issue says it all and expresses my feelings toward the amateur driving.  Lets just say this- I still have a valid current "P" license in my pocket.  Nice to know some remember me.  Never was much of a driver and most of the drives were behind cheap claimers though I did get to drive a nice bit aging old class horse one night at Northfield thanks to Kurt Sugg.  Damn near won at 17-1 from the outside...cut the mile, finished 3rd beaten just 2 lengths.  Helluva thrill.  I like to never say never but without some practice and a horse to drive it would appear my colors will remain in mothballs.  At least the memories remain.

[Jeremy]

thanks to Kurt Sugg.

That guy deserves no thanks* until he refriends Amy Hollar.




*unless I have him in a pick 3, 4 or 5

[LVGaryD]

 

[AmyHollar]

That guy deserves no thanks* until he refriends Amy Hollar.




*unless I have him in a pick 3, 4 or 5

Goes with out saying

[Jeremy]

Goes with out saying

well I said it anyway, get over it.

[MichiganDale]

Okay, I'm out of the loop on this - what's the deal between Amy and Kurt?   What are we missing?   Actually sort of a shame this thread had gone off-track from being 'the true pick 5 story.'   Oh well......maybe we need a new thread - Amy/Kurt?   

[Max R]

Okay, I'm out of the loop on this - what's the deal between Amy and Kurt?   What are we missing?   Actually sort of a shame this thread had gone off-track from being 'the true pick 5 story.'   Oh well......maybe we need a new thread - Amy/Kurt?   

Sorry I guess Im somewhat responsible for us getting off topic.
I see the big carryover produced a fairly small payout last night

Dale, I had wanted some info on the Michigan situation and thank you for providing it. I knew you would very helpful as always , and you were. But we seemed to have derailed the Ira Pick 5 mess. Perhaps we can get a thread on Michigan racing going. Thats what I should have done originally. My apologies , especially to Ira

Dale, it looks like I'll be able to make it out to the Memorial as things stand. Will advise you. Thanks, friend

[AmyHollar]

well I said it anyway, get over it.

I think the original "get over it" was pointed at you.....I'm kind of wondering if you have?