help stop horse theft.

[The Gripper]

Marvin D Raber aka horse theif and very strong connections to the Amish

[Jeremy]

So you think you pulled a good one off with Four Starrz ?
With your kangaroo Amish sale .

Marvin D Raber aka horse theif and very strong connections to the Amish

[LVGaryD]

The only real ethical problem I see here is with someone designating a horse as pleasure only ...after the horse has been sold twice.

Many horses come back from injuries. For someone to try and control what happened to a horse only after dumping the horse is the real travesty.

I do appreciate the page hits this dumbass thread has generated though.
 

[LVGaryD]

Also for what it is worth, my cousin drives a truck that hauls animals to slaughterhouses. He said 196 sheep is not even close to overcrowding. He gets 95  cattle on that weigh about 500 pounds each. Sheep weigh less tjhan 100 pounds.

[Just Saying]

I had a very nice homebred filly that won her 1st 4 or 5 starts, until she broke a sesamoid. Had it removed and I couldn't get her sound enough to race, so I gave her to a friend (and partner) for a broodmare. Couple of years later he put her back into training.

Long story short: She won the F&M Open at Pompano and went on to win $100k. Instead of being pissed-off, I was thrilled that she had a great career doing what she loved to do.

IMO, if you want to have the say-so on a horse forever, don't get rid of them.

[AmyHollar]

 

[javelina]

 

[Joani]

I have no clue who this guy is...........or what he did or didn't do.   My question is (especially after reading Scioto's FB page) all these people are absolutely livid about this situation, why wasn't there representation at Scioto to stop the horse, a protest, even an angry mob.  There has been a lot of people all outraged on these two forums, but no one that I am aware of actually doing anything but talking.   Do you really think posting here is going to change anything?   I get that you're upset, like I said, I have no knowledge about the situation, but it seems to me that these owners should have made a point of being at Scioto and making there feelings known and to do it in front of Mr. Raber, where he'd have a chance to defend himself.   

[LVGaryD]

Joani the point is, the goofs have no horse in this race. Let the do gooders whine and bitch all they want, Marvin Raber did absolutely nothing wrong, end of story.

He bought the horse properly and a bunch of goofsballs tried to make it out like he did something wrong.

[3 wide and wingin]

Joani the point is, the goofs have no horse in this race. Let the do gooders whine and bitch all they want, Marvin Raber did absolutely nothing wrong, end of story.

He bought the horse properly and a bunch of goofsballs tried to make it out like he did something wrong.

Kind of unfair. I have never owned a horse but do care aboou the sports health and overall perception. Mainly so that it survives and my friends can make a living. And I have a lot of fun going to the races.

Apparently the horse broke a cesamode (sp?). But the original owners need to do more.
To make sure that returning to the races didnt happen.
If it meant that much to them.
Just pawning off to the Amish and filing pleasure only papers with the USTA isnt really cutting the mustard.

[AmyHollar]

I don't even know if there is such a thing as "pleasure only" kind of filing with the USTA.

Many horses come back from sesamoid injuries..............especially if given enough time to heal. 

The real beef these owners have is with original person the gave the horse too.  And like I said, they would have been foolish to not sign off on the animal in the first place.

[LVGaryD]

Kind of unfair. I have never owned a horse but do care aboou the sports health and overall perception. Mainly so that it survives and my friends can make a living. And I have a lot of fun going to the races.

Apparently the horse broke a cesamode (sp?). But the original owners need to do more.
To make sure that returning to the races didnt happen.
If it meant that much to them.
Just pawning off to the Amish and filing pleasure only papers with the USTA isnt really cutting the mustard.

Was not referring to you. Sesamoids and pastern bones (whichever it was) are both injuries that horses often return and race well after, especially after getting a lot of time off.

The people involved in stirring up this shit could care less about horses, they just want to stir up shit and act like they actually care about them. Do you think for even a second that Casey gives a damn about any horse after he cashes a ticket on them?

 

[Jeremy]

Kind of unfair. I have never owned a horse but do care aboou the sports health and overall perception. Mainly so that it survives and my friends can make a living. And I have a lot of fun going to the races.

Apparently the horse broke a cesamode (sp?). But the original owners need to do more.
To make sure that returning to the races didnt happen.
If it meant that much to them.
Just pawning off to the Amish and filing pleasure only papers with the USTA isnt really cutting the mustard.

When you trade in a car for a new one, do you get to tell the dealership who they can sell it to and what they can use it for?

[fuzzypants]

It would seem to me that an owner who was in no way, shape or form "made out of money" wouldn't hire legal counsel and bare not only the expenses for those services, but the countless hours of work tracking this whole thing from the start.

Here is some information from that counsel:

"The course of events, of which the U.S.T.A. is familiar are as follows.  While the owner of the horse, Four Starz Valley in conjunction with two separate attempts by my trainer to get this horse to the races in California, he fractured a coffin joint twice. 
 
He first fractured a coffin joint in his first qualifier for me and was laid up to rehabilitate for over one year at our farm in Riverside.  After rehabilitation and clearance by my veterinarian to begin training he was once again trained down in anticipation of racing again.  However, he did not make it back to the races.  In advance of him qualifying a second time he again fractured the same coffin joint.  At that time the veterinarian determined that due to his re-injury and confirmation he would never be safe to race as had suffered the second fracture, to the same coffin joint, in the same manner that he originally had.  At that time I adopted the horse out keeping the registration paperwork so that ownership could not transfer and no one could race the horse again.  This was done so-as to protect the horse from catastrophic injury and to protect other horsemen or participants should the unthinkable happen where this horse completely breaks down in any race.
 
Unbeknownst to me and my intent to adopt this horse out to a forever home, I have subsequently learned, he instead ended up in several Amish sales on the east coast in Ohio and Pennsylvania." 


ONE YEAR ON REHAB. Doesn't sound to me like someone who "dumped" a horse.

"Soon thereafter I learned that Marvin D. Raber had the horse upon his demand to me in the amount of $9,000.  This was after I had no knowledge of him having obtained the horse, the circumstances surrounding his obtaining the horse, and with his full knowledge that he would not be able to obtain transfer for the registration papers held electronically unless he submitted a fraudulent transfer slip through a race office.  As the legal owner of this horse, Marvin D. Raber did not have my authority to have possession, train, or care for this horse.  Only after he fraudulently obtained the horse via private sale after a reserve not met sale at an Amish auction (Smokey Lane), and he qualified the horse at Northfield, did he make any demand upon me for anything"

Why would the previous owner be responsible for 9 grand in training fees if Raber was the rightful owner? Why won't Northfield let him enter the horse at the current time if the Judges are OK with this?

"As the legal and bona-fide owner of the horse I placed the U.S.T.A. Pleasure Horse Designation on him outlined in Rule 26, and registered via Inner Circle to ensure that he would not race again.  I faxed letters to Janet Terhune at the U.S.T.A., Lester Teeters (Presiding Judge at NFLD), and Dave Bianconi (Racing Secretary at NFLD) explaining the situation.  Despite the designation, and no transfer on ownership to anyone else this horse was permitted to qualify with me and my partner as the legal owners. I am licensed as an Owner in California and Minnesota.  We are not members of the Ohio Harness Horsemen's Association, we have no Ohio racing licenses, and had this horse broken down in the qualifier and injured others we would have had no liability insurance coverage to protect any damage to race equipment, personal property, or others.  Just the fact that this horse was permitted to race in Ohio without a legal change of ownership was a failure of the system"

As the "legal" owner of the horse, why didn't Raber transfer him BEFORE he was entered and completed the qualifying race if all was on the up and up?

"After the horse qualified Marvin D. Raber then paid the private party for the horse he had qualified and then he engaged an attorney to pursue an Ohio Farm Lien in order to circumvent what I had put into place, so he could race the horse.
 
From a fraudulent demand for an erroneous amount of money ($9,000) when Marvin D. Raber never paid for the horse via private sale (in an unknown amount) until after the horse qualified at Northfield, to a defective legal process in Ohio, when I am a California resident with no connection to Ohio and Raber had no authority from me in Ohio, to defective legal notice, to a fraudulent public sale where the only  horse that was sold on that day was Four Starz Valley, Marvin D Raber obtained a bill of sale from the Sugarcreek Auction House on June 20, 2012."

Sounds like a clean business deal, right?

"On July 6, 2012, I received an anonymous tip that the USTA set forth that I "signed off" on the Pleasure Horse Designation in some manner.  That I took the pleasure horse designation off of Four Starz and cleared him to race again and that the registration papers to Marvin D. Raber would issue.
That is patently false.  I never removed the designation.  I wouldn't have done so under any circumstances due to the health, safety, and welfare issues present in this case.  This is an issue of the horse suffering catastrophic breakdown and the potential for injury to others.  That is the reason I made the designation that is the reason I am pursuing this case.  This horse is unsafe to race."

Funny, the previous owner never asked for money for the horse, just that he be handed over to an Ohio Rescue Program who would offer a caring home and prevent any "mishaps" that could potentially come about by racing an unfit animal.

"The purpose of the Pleasure Horse Designation is just this kind of a case.  If an owner has a horse that is unsafe or unfit for racing and they want to prevent the horse from racing in the future they are supposed to be covered by making the Pleasure Horse Designation.  Horses can never race, be bred, or used in any way for racing.  You can even transfer the ownership and the designation is supposed to remain."

"At this time if the registration papers are not revoked and this horse isn't prohibited from ever racing again, as was the intent when I as the legal owner put the Pleasure Horse Designation on him, I will immediately proceed with any avenue available in order to publicize this case and pursue any legal remedies available to me. Further, Marvin D. Raber should be penalized for his misconduct as outlined under U.S.T.A. Rules:  Rule 20, Section 7;  Article I, Section 3; Article IV, Section 2; and Rule 11, for his misconduct and multiple acts detrimental to the sport.
over the papers will keep the horse "safe".  Lo and behold the horse shows up at an Amish sale, is bought by a horse trainer, who knows there are no papers.  No worries, they can do a fraudulent transfer slip through the race office once they get the horse qualified and get the registration papers issued in their name.  This happens all the time, the USTA knows about it, and that was supposed to be the impetus behind this program to stop that.
 
And that is what the Pleasure Horse Designation was supposed to prevent"

[LVGaryD]

Actually I am told that the horse was being used in Holmes county, Ohio as a buggy horse. He was so fast that Marvin Raber heard about the horse and bought him at Sugarcreek Livestock Auction.

Happens all the time. Now look at it this way: if the horse is sound enough to trot up a storm on the paved roads of Holmes county, is sound enough to qualify not once but twice, and trot in 2:00.1, how sore can he possibly be? How many times is a veterinarian incorrect? Often!

There are different sides to any story and especially if the above account is from an attorney, I have grave doubts about the authenticity of said claims.

I have heard from one of the owners of the auction, and I have heard from Raber's representatives. Sue away. Case dismissed.