In The Sulky Forum

General Category => General Harness Racing Discussion => Topic started by: beans and weenies on September 13, 2013, 04:43:13 AM

Title: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: beans and weenies on September 13, 2013, 04:43:13 AM
y Bill Finley
The Jug didn’t get the star that race organizers wanted
but the Jugette has. I Luv The Nitelife, easily the top 3-
year-old pacing filly in North America, will start next in the
Jugette, confirms trainer Chris Ryder.
While top male pacer
Captaintreacherous is
skipping the Jug to prepare
for the Grand Circuit meet
at the Red Mile, Ryder will
do the opposite. He said
after the Jug he will give I
Luv The Nitelife a breather
and get ready for the
Breeders Crown.
Though he will start his filly at Delaware, Ryder doesn’t
exactly sound excited about it
.
“Am I a fan of Delaware? No,” he sad. “I don’t like the
heats, I don’t like how little money you go for and I don’t
like the way you are treated

. What I do like is having a
good horse and being in the big races.
“She’s eligible and we’ve made the decision to go. I don’t
like the half-mile track and I don’t like the fact that if you
get a bad post you are screwed. If you get a good post
you’re in control. But she’s do
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: LVGaryD on September 13, 2013, 05:49:20 AM
I will go along with the treatment of horsemen at Delaware. This year, all horsemen with an OSRC badge get in free on race days though, so that is a good thing.

A large part of the mistreatment of horsemen comes from the presiding judge at Delaware. God bless Peter Wrenn. thumbsup

As far as the heat racing part, the high-test gas just doesn't work after one heat of racing. It levels the playing field and this is why I love heat racing.
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: pezz97 on September 13, 2013, 03:12:47 PM
I will go along with the treatment of horsemen at Delaware. This year, all horsemen with an OSRC badge get in free on race days though, so that is a good thing.

A large part of the mistreatment of horsemen comes from the presiding judge at Delaware. God bless Peter Wrenn. thumbsup

As far as the heat racing part, the high-test gas just doesn't work after one heat of racing. It levels the playing field and this is why I love heat racing.
Yup, cause every good horse must be on something..... :o ::) slaphead slaphead

And on top of that, 1/2 mile racing SUCKS!!!
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: beans and weenies on September 13, 2013, 07:54:03 PM
Yup, cause every good horse must be on something..... :o ::) slaphead slaphead

And on top of that, 1/2 mile racing SUCKS!!!

 rflmao1
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: LVGaryD on September 13, 2013, 08:05:40 PM
Half-mile racing is true harness racing. Heat racing is pure racing.

Mile track racing is purely horses going around a track. Go, go, go, till they stop-sort of like the flats.
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: RocknRoll on September 14, 2013, 08:43:31 AM
Half-mile racing is true harness racing. Heat racing is pure racing.

Mile track racing is purely horses going around a track. Go, go, go, till they stop-sort of like the flats.

Mile track racing is real racing...you don't let the post draw determine the winner. Sure it can happen but doesn't happen as much as when they're running on the half mile carousels.
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: Jeremy on September 14, 2013, 11:38:22 AM
Half-mile racing is true harness racing. Heat racing is pure racing.

Mile track racing is purely horses going around a track. Go, go, go, till they stop-sort of like the flats.

After listening to arguments on both sides for the past week, I feel that if you are going to do heat racing in a half you should limit the horses to 6 per race.  Your horse can be at its best and you have a 25% chance of drawing into a position where you barely have a chance to come out with the top prize.
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: dinkadoo on September 14, 2013, 12:02:59 PM
Half-mile racing is true harness racing. Heat racing is pure racing.

Mile track racing is purely horses going around a track. Go, go, go, till they stop-sort of like the flats.

half mile racing is so bad that if you draw the 5 hole on a half ---- you are betting against whether or not the horse is even trying....

Northfield has become unbettable for years..... Draw the outside and race for a small check or perhaps getting some money off the card so I can make a drop next start.....

Pure and simple that is what it has become

That's not racing !
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: Dolfan on September 14, 2013, 12:47:07 PM
Half-mile racing is true harness racing. Heat racing is pure racing.

Mile track racing is purely horses going around a track. Go, go, go, till they stop-sort of like the flats.

 thumbsup thumbsup

Also,  thumbsup to Ryder for going to the Jugette with his star filly, showing her off & his appreciation for tradition.  Way to go, Cheech!


After listening to arguments on both sides for the past week, I feel that if you are going to do heat racing in a half you should limit the horses to 6 per race.  Your horse can be at its best and you have a 25% chance of drawing into a position where you barely have a chance to come out with the top prize.

These tracks just need to angle the gate more & get the early start, just like Maywood where pp 7 & 8 have a somewhat respectable 8.5% & 6.6 win %.  In comparison Nfld is 5.5% & 4.3%.
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: LVGaryD on September 14, 2013, 02:15:53 PM
In my not-so-humble opinion, the idiot who came up with the passing lane should be shot. Half-mile racing was forever changed that day. This is yet another reason I love Delaware. Ohio. No passing lane. If a guy even thinks about a 30 second quarter, three guys are out running him down.

 thumbsup
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: BretHanover on September 14, 2013, 02:24:41 PM
Again, when it is a $1,000,000 race (and I believe it will be soon), trainers will be pushing the gates down.
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: LVGaryD on September 14, 2013, 02:29:40 PM
Again, when it is a $1,000,000 race (and I believe it will be soon), trainers will be pushing the gates down.
thumbsup  It really should carry a million dollar purse very soon. Maybe within two years.
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: jordanjacob on September 14, 2013, 03:52:23 PM
thumbsup  It really should carry a million dollar purse very soon. Maybe within two years.

that will do it and get many of the players in
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: Jeremy on September 14, 2013, 04:07:19 PM
thumbsup  It really should carry a million dollar purse very soon. Maybe within two years.


That's too bad. Increase the purses elsewhere, such as horses that run in Ohio all the time.
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: Headpole Dave on September 14, 2013, 04:24:35 PM
The Jug is a premier event in harness racing. It has history, tradition and a massive following. This is what attracts the best horses and spectators... It should go for a million bucks. The over nights are the meat and potatoes but the Jug is your signature event that draws... That's where the money should go at first, than to the over nights. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: Dolfan on September 14, 2013, 06:18:19 PM
Couldn't agree more Dave.

Jeremy, you often surprise me.  I know you're knowledgeable & committed.  I just don't understand how you don't get it.  If you believe that raising purses by $500 a race for 1,000 races instead of putting an extra $500,000 into an event this important, you are mistaken.

I personally don't believe the Jug will ever race for $1 million because those in control make virtually every wrong move possible.
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: Jeremy on September 15, 2013, 05:26:59 AM

Jeremy, you often surprise me.  I know you're knowledgeable & committed. 

I stopped reading after that.

The event is  just not that important anymore.
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: dinkadoo on September 15, 2013, 05:53:16 AM

That's too bad. Increase the purses elsewhere, such as horses that run in Ohio all the time.

see they are still racing for $1500     birdienana


Do they still charge 2% of the ADVERTISED PURSE as the entry fee ?

I always had to pay based off the $2400 advertised purse yet I recall the purse being $1800 a few times..... Great Scam......   
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: AmyHollar on September 15, 2013, 09:06:43 AM

That's too bad. Increase the purses elsewhere, such as horses that run in Ohio all the time.
thumbsup
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: Just Saying on September 15, 2013, 09:53:31 AM
I won't pretend to speak for the man, but a principal owner of Captaintreacherous was treated pretty shitty by The LBJ Committee when he raced in the Jug in 2010. He was right and the Committee was wrong and he strongly told them so. Their answer was pretty much, "Go piss up a rope."

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that might have played a part in The Captain skipping the Jug.

Regardless, I'll be there in a couple of days with all the bells and whistles that surround me. Let's Party!
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: beans and weenies on September 16, 2013, 04:40:30 PM
I won't pretend to speak for the man, but a principal owner of Captaintreacherous was treated pretty shitty by The LBJ Committee when he raced in the Jug in 2010. He was right and the Committee was wrong and he strongly told them so. Their answer was pretty much, "Go piss up a rope."

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that might have played a part in The Captain skipping the Jug.

Regardless, I'll be there in a couple of days with all the bells and whistles that surround me. Let's Party!

Couldn't agree more Dave.

Jeremy, you often surprise me.  I know you're knowledgeable & committed.  I just don't understand how you don't get it.  If you believe that raising purses by $500 a race for 1,000 races instead of putting an extra $500,000 into an event this important, you are mistaken.

I personally don't believe the Jug will ever race for $1 million because those in control make virtually every wrong move possible.

 thumbsup thumbsup Total Truth.
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: tonyb147 on September 17, 2013, 09:57:01 AM
Mile track racing is real racing...you don't let the post draw determine the winner. Sure it can happen but doesn't happen as much as when they're running on the half mile carousels.

Just to prove this point with actual numbers, these are the actual wins by post position last week at Batavia's half mile, copied from Brain's blog.

The inside four post positions were definitely the place to be during Batavia Downs' 49-race week as an amazing 96 percent of the winners came from there.

If you take out the three wins from three post, the one, two and four holes won 44 times or nearly 88 percent.

Wins by post position this week:
1. 17
2. 16
3.  3
4. 17
5.  1
6.  0
7.  0
8.  1


You may as well fold your racing form in half right between the #4 and #5 and only look at half the page.  shootme
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: RocknRoll on September 17, 2013, 11:59:12 AM
Just to prove this point with actual numbers, these are the actual wins by post position last week at Batavia's half mile, copied from Brain's blog.

The inside four post positions were definitely the place to be during Batavia Downs' 49-race week as an amazing 96 percent of the winners came from there.

If you take out the three wins from three post, the one, two and four holes won 44 times or nearly 88 percent.

Wins by post position this week:
1. 17
2. 16
3.  3
4. 17
5.  1
6.  0
7.  0
8.  1


You may as well fold your racing form in half right between the #4 and #5 and only look at half the page.  shootme

 thumbsup thumbsup
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: jordanjacob on September 17, 2013, 12:31:08 PM
Just to prove this point with actual numbers, these are the actual wins by post position last week at Batavia's half mile, copied from Brain's blog.

The inside four post positions were definitely the place to be during Batavia Downs' 49-race week as an amazing 96 percent of the winners came from there.

If you take out the three wins from three post, the one, two and four holes won 44 times or nearly 88 percent.

Wins by post position this week:
1. 17
2. 16
3.  3
4. 17
5.  1
6.  0
7.  0
8.  1


You may as well fold your racing form in half right between the #4 and #5 and only look at half the page.  shootme



 bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: LVGaryD on September 17, 2013, 05:25:05 PM
Should be easy to handicap then.  idunno
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: BillyFord on September 17, 2013, 06:42:26 PM
In my not-so-humble opinion, the idiot who came up with the passing lane should be shot. Half-mile racing was forever changed that day. This is yet another reason I love Delaware. Ohio. No passing lane. If a guy even thinks about a 30 second quarter, three guys are out running him down.

 thumbsup

Dick McDermott was involved in the discussions to add that pacing lane and strongly advocated for it.   He and Duke were close like 2 peas in a pod.   Not sure whatever happened to him.

Gary shot him?
Title: Re: The Jug not all lollypops and roses to some horsemen
Post by: beans and weenies on September 17, 2013, 07:12:16 PM
see they are still racing for $1500     birdienana


Do they still charge 2% of the ADVERTISED PURSE as the entry fee ?

I always had to pay based off the $2400 advertised purse yet I recall the purse being $1800 a few times..... Great Scam......

The powers that be in control of the races Jug week think horseman can't add or subtract.  noway