Drug cheats rampant in horse racing?

[AmyHollar]

http://www.arci.com/Racing_Commissioners_International/Drugs_%26_Racing.html

[beans and weenies]

New York just proved the point in bold print.  Making a big deal out of a very small deal.   

[AmyHollar]

And nothing against the intelligence of Hal.....but his reaction is EXACTLY why our so-called regulators are doing more harm than good. 

[careless hal]

And nothing against the intelligence of Hal.....but his reaction is EXACTLY why our so-called regulators are doing more harm than good. 

You seem to be in denial that any cheating takes place.  Of course most horses test clean.  Thank goodness for that. Your, ":horsemen are always innocent or misunderstood" stance is exactly why many have no faith in the sport.  If I thought for a minute that most horses were doped or most races fixed, I'd never bet a dime.  I realize it is a rare occurence.  As a bettor, I figure it all evens out in the end.  Sometimes I may profit from illegal activities, other times I may lose.  As a honest owner or trainer, I would be even more angry at the cheaters because I'm playing by the rules and they are not. Sure, at times any regulators or law-enforcement may hang a bad rap on a person.  That is why there is an appeal process.  Life is not always fair and human institutions are not perfect.  But, if being in favor of throwing the cheaters out of the sport makes me stupid, then I am stupid.

[sallyjo]

New York just proved the point in bold print.  Making a big deal out of a very small deal.   

I guess it is easier to detect Afrin, Synthetic EPO must be harder and more costly to detect. So much more to worry about than Afrin..

[AmyHollar]

You seem to be in denial that any cheating takes place.  Of course most horses test clean.  Thank goodness for that. Your, ":horsemen are always innocent or misunderstood" stance is exactly why many have no faith in the sport.  If I thought for a minute that most horses were doped or most races fixed, I'd never bet a dime.  I realize it is a rare occurence.  As a bettor, I figure it all evens out in the end.  Sometimes I may profit from illegal activities, other times I may lose.  As a honest owner or trainer, I would be even more angry at the cheaters because I'm playing by the rules and they are not. Sure, at times any regulators or law-enforcement may hang a bad rap on a person.  That is why there is an appeal process.  Life is not always fair and human institutions are not perfect.  But, if being in favor of throwing the cheaters out of the sport makes me stupid, then I am stupid.

Never once said you are stupid....quiet the contrary.........your reaction (calling the trainers cheaters) is typical from a gambling perspective......a perspective you gained from the LACK of factual KNOWLEDGE our industry has reported.

You likened them to common robbing criminals......for what they are actually accused of you are displaying an over reaction.......and why wouldn't you?  Your perception comes from only the gun-toting racing commissions not those of the horsemen and veterinarians treating these horses.

Sally Jo just pointed out the ridiculousness............give us a big flaming headline article on an ACTUAL performance enhancing ring, not on freaking nasal spray!

[AmyHollar]

You seem to be in denial that any cheating takes place.  Of course most horses test clean.  Thank goodness for that. Your, ":horsemen are always innocent or misunderstood" stance is exactly why many have no faith in the sport.

I'd like to point out........never once did I proclaim innocence for anyone involved in this issue.......I take issue with the proclamation of the NY State and Wagering Board and wether the punishment actually fits the crime.

You just stated "of course most horses test clean"......then go on to say "exactly why many have no faith in the sport".........why?  If you know most horses test clean then why is there no faith in the sport?

If our industry leaders would just quietly take care of these issues in a fair manner and the public perception becomes one of "rare-occurrence" don't you think faith would be restored?

[UPPER FILLY]

I'd like to point out........never once did I proclaim innocence for anyone involved in this issue.......I take issue with the proclamation of the NY State and Wagering Board and wether the punishment actually fits the crime.

You just stated "of course most horses test clean"......then go on to say "exactly why many have no faith in the sport".........why?  If you know most horses test clean then why is there no faith in the sport?

If our industry leaders would just quietly take care of these issues in a fair manner and the public perception becomes one of "rare-occurrence" don't you think faith would be restored?

 

Hal, here's the thing, over the years the labs have evolved to detecting absolutely everything in a horse's system...legal or illegal... There are many legal drugs that a veterinarian administers at the appropriate times days before a race that are still detected by the super sensitive labs these days, not to mention the contamination by the environment from the grass, grain, sawdust, hay, stall walls he licks, paddock walls he licks....if the racing commissions don't start adjusting their thresholds, from a "0" tollerance to say a 1.0 tollerance...many of us honest trainers will continue to go down...

and I'm speaking from experience, if not today then soon you will see that we got a positive at Indiana Downs for a drug I have never heard of  o-desamethapyrilamine...our vets do not have it on their trucks in any shape or form, it is found in the weight loss drug Ali and Midol    It happened while we were racing in Lexington in October...Our groom does not take these drugs nor anyone else in our stable...."Where did this drug come from??  Was a pill dropped and swept into a stall, while she was turned out in the paddocks where during the fair trucks and trailers park...did somebody have it dropped in a vehicle and they got out and it dropped in the grass and our horse ate it?? Was a person on these, and pee in the grass behind the trailers during the fair and our horse ate it... It doesn't matter, Indiana has a zero tollerance and therefore we had to give back $4000 and pay a 250 fine..we who get positives aren't all cheaters

[careless hal]

I have stated many times that I fully understand that not everyone who gets a positive is a cheater.  I remeber many years ago there was a rash of coke or morphine positives at Sportmans Park.  Eventually, they traced it to the tongue ties in the paddock being contaminated.  They never found out how that took place and all positives were wiped out.


You just stated "of course most horses test clean"......then go on to say "exactly why many have no faith in the sport".........why?  If you know most horses test clean then why is there no faith in the sport?

I have faith.  But, I hear all the time bettors at the track saying "that horse was juiced".  I admit at times, that thought has crossed my mind.  It is the denial by some that always portrays the regulators as bumbling idiots.   They are the bad guys, not those getting the positives. No system is perfect.  But, you seem to come across as always implying that everything is always the result of head-line grabbing regulators.  An occassional "they caught the cheating bums, good"  Might be nice.

If our industry leaders would just quietly take care of these issues in a fair manner and the public perception becomes one of "rare-occurrence" don't you think faith would be restored?

 Are you suggesting this stuff should be swept under the rug?  Then what happens when someone askes, "What happened to Joe Anderson?"  Oh, he was suspended for two years for positives.  I don't think letting the public know that this stuff  won't be tolerated is a bad thing.

[AmyHollar]

Quietly taking care of matters is not sweeping anything under the rug.........if Joe Anderson disappears for two years then he better be disappearing for a very serious offense which would warrant public notification.........does Brian Brown receiving a $250 fine need public certification when there are those out there who will brand him a "cheater' over a minor issue?

Every week there is a list of fines and suspensions posted on the USTA, every week I am not proclaiming innocence or injustice in the penalties. In this case a news release was issued.  I felt it obligatory and self-appreciating of the NY Wagering Board to do so........hence my speaking out.

[careless hal]

OK, I understand your position.  But we will have to agree to disagree.  In a case of this magnitude, I don't think grabbing the bull by the horns is a bad thing.

[AmyHollar]

 


To make us feel better about ourselves...........I'll still call you some obnoxious name if you want to call me one.   

[careless hal]

OK--you no good plum-picker.  (this started a fight in the People's Court about 20 years ago)

[AmyHollar]

 

I spit my gum at the screen..........I can't top that.........you win

[UPPER FILLY]

no good plum picker...somebody get the bar of soap