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General Category => General Harness Racing Discussion => Topic started by: Gazoo on October 20, 2013, 09:26:37 AM

Title: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Gazoo on October 20, 2013, 09:26:37 AM
Until Bee A Magician gets beat she would have my vote .
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: pezz97 on October 20, 2013, 12:24:25 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: NIATROSS on October 20, 2013, 12:39:38 PM
I agree

 thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

i hope she comes back next year.
like norman said she may race some vs the older males next yr.
she may turn out to be one of the all time greats !
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: careless hal on October 20, 2013, 01:07:09 PM
Continental Victory took on the boys and beat them.  BAM may well have been able to beat the boys this year , but we will never know.  CT won all major events he was In.We saw how the Jug winners fared in the Crown-nada.   The Captain gets my vote .  He will win HOY even if the vote here is 75-1 in favor of BAM.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Gazoo on October 20, 2013, 04:32:09 PM
Continental Victory took on the boys and beat them.  BAM may well have been able to beat the boys this year , but we will never know.  CT won all major events he was In.We saw how the Jug winners fared in the Crown-nada.   The Captain gets my vote .  He will win HOY even if the vote here is 75-1 in favor of BAM.
What does Continental Victory have to do with  Bee A Magician ?

Because she didn't race against the boys you're saying that's a knock against her ?   And what makes you think that the Captain is a slam dunk to win HOY ?

In the latest poll Bee A Magician was  still on top by 9 points and had 6 more first place votes.

I could careless who wins HOY because its not going to change my life , but for you to think because she didn't race against the boys she shouldn't win it is ridiculous.

Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Jeremy on October 20, 2013, 05:47:59 PM
The Captain gets my vote .  He will win HOY even if the vote here is 75-1 in favor of BAM.

Did I skip over a few threads where a lot of people on this board bad mouthed CT?  I saw a few saying he should have ran in the jug but a majority saying it wasn't an important race... and even laughing at the thought of him skipping it meant he couldn't be horse of the year.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: beans and weenies on October 20, 2013, 05:59:27 PM
Did I skip over a few threads where a lot of people on this board bad mouthed CT?  I saw a few saying he should have ran in the jug but a majority saying it wasn't an important race... and even laughing at the thought of him skipping it meant he couldn't be horse of the year.

 thumbsup thumbsup
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: CyberChamp on October 20, 2013, 06:03:40 PM
The Captain would get my vote.  He's be winning all over North America and his lone loss was pretty impressive.  Bee had been collecting too much Canadian $$$, but there wasn't much other $$$ out there for her to win against the girls.

Bee really didn't have much competition (off the top of my head, I couldn't name the #2 or #3 3FT).  Then again, maybe that's because she was that good.

 idunno
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Gazoo on October 20, 2013, 06:12:38 PM
The Captain would get my vote.  He's be winning all over North America and his lone loss was pretty impressive.  Bee had been collecting too much Canadian $$$, but there wasn't much other $$$ out there for her to win against the girls.

Bee really didn't have much competition (off the top of my head, I couldn't name the #2 or #3 3FT).  Then again, maybe that's because she was that good.

 idunno
I agree with everything you said but this wasn't a very stellar year for 3yr old colt pacers either.

Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: careless hal on October 20, 2013, 06:31:59 PM
Continental Victory as a filly took on the boys and beat them.  She wasn't only the best filly, she was the best horse period.  We can 't say that about BAM.  CV was HOY. That's what she has to do with this thread.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Gazoo on October 20, 2013, 07:02:19 PM
Continental Victory as a filly took on the boys and beat them.  She wasn't only the best filly, she was the best horse period.  We can 't say that about BAM.  CV was HOY. That's what she has to do with this thread.
Once again Continental Victory has nothing to do with  Bee A Magician  !!

I don't see anything in the rules that says Bee A Magician has to race against the boys to win horse of the year .

And there is still debate on whether or not Continental Victory was even the best filly trotter that year.




Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: careless hal on October 20, 2013, 07:45:44 PM
Of course there is nothing in the rules to keep BAM from being HOY.  Would I be pissed if she won?  No.  I just don't think it's going to happen.  Time will tell.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: jordanjacob on October 21, 2013, 07:34:39 AM
Bee A Magician

winning easy vs any and all

not that The Captain isn't awesome, just look at the amount of winner's circle photos with Bee A Magician and notice no other fillies in the picture
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: The Skipper on October 21, 2013, 08:03:25 AM

Tough call, very tough. She has simply dominated her division all year and has not looked extended in

the least little bit. The Captain has been more exciting IMO because his races seem to be much more

competitive yet he still gets the job done with just 1 loss this year and remember neither of these

2 raced in the jug, I would vote for the Captain just cause he won the BC, NA pace and Meadowlands

pace and I have a good friend who is rooting for him.  dorkusinterruptus
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: MichiganDale on October 21, 2013, 08:20:42 AM
I'd call it a draw and name both of these fine horses as Co-Horses of the Year.   Its rather obvious its a tough tough call (as stated by The Skipper) and that the debate is strong and a case made for each.....that being said, I really believe it should be a draw, a dead-heat so to speak.  I do not believe it would lessen the recognition at all and that each horse has such strong credentials that to name one and exclude the other would appear a snub.   Name em' both!   Thats the way I see it, I'm sure others may not.....oh well.....
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Just Saying on October 21, 2013, 08:34:05 AM
I heard one of the writers say at The Crown that he thought that lack of competition for BAM would hurt her in the polling.(it sounded like he was going to vote for her) She is an absolute beast.

I've seen the Captain battle back after being headed in the stretch more than once. I know that very few ever do that. I'll of course root for the Captain since I have a personal interest in him, but that doesn't take anything away from that fine filly. I'd love to own one of their quality just once before I die.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: The Giss on October 21, 2013, 10:42:26 AM
I DO vote (both in the poll and in the year-end silliness).

IF the year ended now, BAM gets my vote over CT. But there is plenty of racing left.

If she loses between now and the end of the year; if CT takes on older horses at as has been rumored and beats them; if they both lose the rest of their starts and I Luv The Nitelife doesn't.... then I might change my mind.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Gazoo on October 21, 2013, 04:01:37 PM
Bee A Magician

winning easy vs any and all

not that The Captain isn't awesome, just look at the amount of winner's circle photos with Bee A Magician and notice no other fillies in the picture
It's funny because I was texting Red Bow Tie the next day and asking if he seen Bee A Magician in the winners circle .

She was just standing there nibbling and playing with her lead shank where most horses would have their head down from being exhausted or out of control from the adrenaline. 

I just don't think we have seen the bottom of her tank yet.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: LVGaryD on October 21, 2013, 05:09:50 PM
I'm not so certain she couldn't destroy the three year-old colt trotters.   idunno
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: beans and weenies on October 21, 2013, 07:09:15 PM
It's funny because I was texting Red Bow Tie the next day and asking if he seen Bee A Magician in the winners circle .

She was just standing there nibbling and playing with her lead shank where most horses would have their head down from being exhausted or out of control from the adrenaline. 

I just don't think we have seen the bottom of her tank yet.

LOL  I thought the same thing!  There she was just relaxed like it was a jog mile.!!! 
She would get my vote for sure.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: careless hal on October 22, 2013, 01:31:19 AM
Her owners wanted nothing to do with taking on the boys.  Could have won the Hambo, but we will never know.  Had she done that no doubt HOY.  But wait, they were afraid she would get beat!.   I say no guts no glory.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: pezz97 on October 22, 2013, 03:40:39 AM
Her owners wanted nothing to do with taking on the boys.  Could have won the Hambo, but we will never know.  Had she done that no doubt HOY.  But wait, they were afraid she would get beat!.   I say no guts no glory.
No, Actually they said they didn't want to race twice on the same day, EXACTLY what the owners of the Captain said.........


“We’ve pretty much made up our mind,” Norman said this week. “We had the plan and we’re going to stick to going in the Oaks and race her against her own kind. We just feel that going two heats against the boys might be too much. You get a day like this where it’s a hundred-odd degrees and it might be too tough.

“All the owners are on board with it. We just feel that we have to protect the horse as much as possible. I actually think the fillies might be tougher than the colts, but it’s more the two-heats factor than the opposition.”

If the Hambletonian were to be raced with eliminations one weekend followed by the final on the next weekend, Bee A Magician probably would have faced the boys.

“I think if it had been the old format we almost definitely would have tried the Hambletonian,” Norman said. “That would be my take.”
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: careless hal on October 22, 2013, 04:57:11 AM
excuses abound no end
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: pezz97 on October 22, 2013, 09:55:05 AM
I think the captain should of faced older all year instead of 3 year old colts. He can't be horse of year since he didn't.  ::)  ::)
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: The Skipper on October 22, 2013, 10:46:42 AM
This thread is 1 reason I enjoy posting here and NOWHERE else  noway We can all share our different

opinions and even "ball bust" a little bit but no name calling, nothing uncivil and no one is right or wrong

just our different thoughts.  thumbsup
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: beans and weenies on October 22, 2013, 12:22:11 PM
 thumbsup Skipper
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: AmyHollar on October 22, 2013, 12:56:24 PM
 thumbsup  Exactly Skipper!


Even though deep down we all know what muther-f***ing idiots everyone is who won't agree with me.


Capatintreacherous.................2013 HOTY!
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: The Skipper on October 22, 2013, 12:58:11 PM
thumbsup  Exactly Skipper!


Even though deep down we all know what muther-f***ing idiots everyone is who won't agree with me.


Capatintreacherous.................2013 HOTY!

Ya know it's very scary, it's like you're in my head reading my thoughts.   rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: AmyHollar on October 22, 2013, 01:00:08 PM
Ya know it's very scary, it's like you're in my head reading my thoughts.   rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1
8)
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: powerful stuff on October 22, 2013, 02:10:47 PM
Captain Atrocious goes off at 1/5 and hangs on tooth and nail against a horse parked most of the mile from the eight-hole.

Bee A Magician at 1/9 leaves the ear plugs in, jiggy-jogs and leaves them gasping for air.

Why is there even a question? Should she be giving them a headstart, or should the driver be taking a stranglehold and win by as little a possible?
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Gazoo on October 22, 2013, 04:46:47 PM
But wait, they were afraid she would get beat!.   I say no guts no glory.
So I guess the same thing can be said about CT skipping the Jug ?
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: pezz97 on October 22, 2013, 07:32:57 PM
So I guess the same thing can be said about CT skipping the Jug ?
thumbsup
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Just Saying on October 22, 2013, 08:11:49 PM
Captain Atrocious

{2010 Captaintreacherous 3,H, P1:47.1 $2,792,526.00}
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: careless hal on October 22, 2013, 08:44:14 PM
I've decided the two camps will never agree.  So I'm going to just go and make myself a drink.  If I use Jack Daniels Single Barrel it means CT will be HOY.  If I use Redbreast, BAM will be HOY.  I will reveal the contents of my cocktail after the official results.  If Father Patrick wins, I will stop drinking.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: AmyHollar on October 23, 2013, 06:07:56 PM
{2010 Captaintreacherous 3,H, P1:47.1 $2,792,526.00}
thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: powerful stuff on October 23, 2013, 06:33:11 PM
{2010 Captaintreacherous 3,H, P1:47.1 $2,792,526.00}

(http://)

O.K., so he's not atrocious LOL. But he's not invincible like BAM. Careless hal should drink brandywine. Can't figure out how to post the winner's circle picture of Sunshine Beach, who has beaten him this year. I guess they figured if they congratulated the connections, somehow his loss wouldn't count.

Ducking the Messenger I see. How dare they suggest he race on a 1/2 mile track? As Seinfeld said in that classic episode where he didn't want to race his faster friend, I CHOOOOSE not to race!
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Just Saying on October 24, 2013, 07:15:05 AM
No, the other way around: The other horses only entered the Messenger stake to duck the Captain.
 rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1

BAM & The Captain are both great horses, period, and my world won't stop turning over which one wins HOTY. Fun topic though.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: beans and weenies on October 24, 2013, 03:04:51 PM
No, the other way around: The other horses only entered the Messenger stake to duck the Captain.
 rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1

BAM & The Captain are both great horses, period, and my world won't stop turning over which one wins HOTY. Fun topic though.
thumbsup
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: pezz97 on November 01, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Who is horse of the year now?
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: jordanjacob on November 01, 2013, 07:58:37 PM
Who is horse of the year now?

Bee A Magician

she's just dominating, no other horses in the photo with her
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: jug on November 02, 2013, 07:24:38 AM
Who is horse of the year now?

No doubt who will win HOY.....but watching the Captain race is 100 times more exciting than seeing a 1-9 BAM win wrapped up every week.

Two incredible animals!  thumbsup
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: powerful stuff on November 02, 2013, 02:38:39 PM
There will still be those who say "the loss doesn't matter", "every horse gets beat". The fact is, every loss matters as much or more than every win. Every horse gets beat (even that's debatable), but to get beat in a mediocre time, against mediocre competition, after getting a .29 second quarter is just not what great horses do.

Bee A magician almost got beat at Mohawk against lesser competition, but despite getting a terrible trip from Zeron, she stormed down the stretch to fight for the win coming from behind with strict whipping rules. ALL HORSE. That's what great horses do when they are not at their best..they still win and don't need excuses.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Just Saying on November 02, 2013, 09:58:11 PM
I know this after racing for many years: It's damn tough to race a horse against the best in their class for an entire season without them getting lame, tired, or sick. Both trainers have done an excellent job of keeping these horses fit for the entire season, so far. A trainer has to be a little lucky also when you haul them all over two countries and expose them to all kinds of germs and virus' that they've never been exposed to and they still remain healthy.

I'd say the ball is in BAM's court right now, but there's still races left. I would be thrilled to own either one of them!
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: NIATROSS on November 03, 2013, 12:32:16 AM
congrats to hoosier for bringing the stars to indiana !
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Gazoo on November 03, 2013, 01:01:24 PM
This years 3yr old colt crop is very weak  .......
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Just Saying on November 03, 2013, 03:36:18 PM
ok
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: beans and weenies on November 03, 2013, 05:01:21 PM
This years 3yr old colt crop is very weak  .......

 rflmao1 rflmao1
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Gazoo on November 03, 2013, 06:17:07 PM
rflmao1 rflmao1
Just curious because I don't know , is there another 3yr old with a million dollars made on his card ?

I know last year there were 4 horses in the Breeders Crown final with a million .... and that was with Bolt the Duer and A Rock n Roll Dance not even in the final

Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Bettor on November 03, 2013, 08:21:03 PM
Who is horse of the year now?

Cutie needs to add another candidate:


FOILED AGAIN   hitdatsumbitch
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: LVGaryD on November 03, 2013, 09:23:46 PM
Cutie needs to add another candidate:


FOILED AGAIN   hitdatsumbitch
While the Captain is a freak and an awesome animal and Foiled is obviously one of my favorite all-time horses, I would have to vote for Bee A Magician at this point. She too is a freak, and at this point, a super freak.

 heartluv
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: careless hal on November 04, 2013, 07:01:45 AM
This years 3 yr old filly trotting crop is very weak.  Outside of BAM, is there any 3 yr old filly that earned a million?  Answer--NO, not even close.  My HOY is now Father Patrick!
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: LVGaryD on November 04, 2013, 08:15:00 AM
This years 3 yr old filly trotting crop is very weak.  Outside of BAM, is there any 3 yr old filly that earned a million?  Answer--NO, not even close.  My HOY is now Father Patrick!
Not so sure the group is weak or if the horse of the year is simply a superior animal. I'd go as far as saying she might be the best trotting filly in history. That would include a whole lot of great trotting fillies.

 thumbsup thumbsup
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: careless hal on November 04, 2013, 09:07:22 AM
Not so sure the group is weak or if the horse of the year is simply a superior animal. I'd go as far as saying she might be the best trotting filly in history. That would include a whole lot of great trotting fillies.

 thumbsup thumbsup


Slowly put down that crack pipe!  I'm just being sarcastic.  No 3 yr old pacer besides CT has made a million, that proves the crop is weak.  No 3yr filly trotter has earned a million besides BAM, that proves she is a superior animal.  rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: The Skipper on November 04, 2013, 03:20:27 PM

The only horse that dominated any division was B.A.M. ..... HOY 99% wrapped up.

2nd closest was C.T. but that last loss was inexcusable, he just didn't have it. 

Foiled will get older pacer 99%.

A lot less horses will end up with less than a million this year compared to last year or even years before.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: pezz97 on November 04, 2013, 09:48:21 PM
The only horse that dominated any division was B.A.M. ..... HOY 99% wrapped up.

2nd closest was C.T. but that last loss was inexcusable, he just didn't have it. 

Foiled will get older pacer 99%.

A lot less horses will end up with less than a million this year compared to last year or even years before.
thumbsup
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: AmyHollar on November 06, 2013, 11:59:51 AM
ok
thumbsup shootme
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: beans and weenies on November 06, 2013, 06:18:40 PM
I have no opinion either way.  If I had either in my barn I would die happy.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Bettor on November 30, 2013, 09:17:50 PM
Cutie needs to add another candidate:


FOILED AGAIN   hitdatsumbitch

Ummmmmumum......think there is a poll selection awaiting revision!!!!!

bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown FOILED AGAIN
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: The Skipper on November 30, 2013, 09:55:41 PM
Ummmmmumum......think there is a poll selection awaiting revision!!!!!

bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown FOILED AGAIN

What's in that water up north ? 1st Griz and now this ? BAM IS HOY 1000%  We all here as far as I know

love Foiled unlike Griz but the facts are the facts.  noway  shootme
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Bettor on November 30, 2013, 11:23:06 PM
What's in that water up north ? 1st Griz and now this ? BAM IS HOY 1000%  We all here as far as I know

love Foiled unlike Griz but the facts are the facts.  noway  shootme

noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway noway
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Jeremy on December 01, 2013, 03:17:56 AM
Ummmmmumum......think there is a poll selection awaiting revision!!!!!

bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown FOILED AGAIN

you can only take 2013 into consideration for horse of the year
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: MichiganDale on December 01, 2013, 06:04:09 AM
In late October I suggested a tie, co-horses of the year...my thinking has changed. While I love watching the Magician and favor trotters I now favor Foiled Again.  The horse is a machine....just keeps on going.   9 years old and still winning with such gutsy performances against the top competition makes FA Horse of The Year in my eyes.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: pezz97 on December 01, 2013, 07:17:02 AM
As great as Foiled Again is, it is BAM that is the only horse that can be horse of the year.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Just Saying on December 01, 2013, 07:41:10 AM
As great as Foiled Again is, it is BAM that is the only horse that can be horse of the year.
I like things that are objective, like 1st horse under the wire wins; not subjective, like voters' opinion. But HOY is a subjective endeavor so who knows how it will turn out.

3 reflections I have:

1. BAM is so much better than anything in her class that it's hard to see her light shine. She  is a monster.

2. The Captain has been good for the biz... brings excitement to every start.

3. FA is absolutely my kind of racehorse. 9 yo whoopin' up on everybody. Most certainly qualifies to be HOY.

The TVG finished with 9 horses under a blanket of 4/5 sec. Amazing
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: Jeremy on December 01, 2013, 09:57:24 AM
If you wanted to look at it objectively like when they have the driver of the year criteria, Bee A Magician is tied for 8th in total wins, 1st in UHRS and 2nd in earnings.

Foiled Again is the horse of the decade, but another horse in his division took two world records this year, and there was some talk that if Pet Rock won yesterday that he may be the older horse of the year.
Title: Re: HOY : The Captain Or Bee A Magician ?
Post by: beans and weenies on December 01, 2013, 02:52:53 PM
I don't think I have seen a night of racing as awesome as the Meadowlands were last night!!!   If they had drivers of the year John Campbell and David Miller would have to tie!  Absolutely my favorite drivers EVER!!!  Altho I am not Burke Brigade fan, To keep the old war horse Foiled Again sharp to end of the year is just awesome!  That horse has such a desire to win he would crawl on his knees to cross the wire 1st.  Absolutely Love that horse!!  I don't think it matters who is HOTY.  it is a matter of favorites to the ones voting.  How could you separate BAM,  The Captian or FA for tha matter.  flip a coin or give all 3 of them HOTY.