In The Sulky Forum
General Category => General Harness Racing Discussion => Topic started by: careless hal on September 27, 2013, 02:45:05 AM
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http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/restricted/pdf/hru/hru092713%20(2).pdf
One unhappy camper!
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Awwwww. Poor baby!!! :'( I never even heard of the bonus before, but if they had three heats, it would be a good thing.
I am not a big Phil Terry fan myself. I think he really overcharges the sponsors for what they get out of it, and I think the seats in the grandstand just beat the hell out of my legs.
But I do love the tradition and am more than willing to take Phil Terry's job if they need me. First thing I will do is use everything in my power to get rid of the Schmitz guys....both of them.
4pezz2 hammerhead1
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Awwwww. Poor baby!!! :'(
Now you sound just like the Jug pricks! It's written in the conditions that the guy is owed the $25,000 period. Would YOU chose to let them cheat YOU out of $25,000 that you had coming, while they told you that you didn't deserve an answer. I would have left in handcuffs.
A principal owner of The Captain was told he owed an extra $1,000 on his Jug entry fee a couple years ago, even though the conditions read differently. They refused to tell him why and he was furious. Everyone told him that it was someone else's call, and that 'someone' was never found. The owner could and would have paid $10,000 more if he had owed it. The disrespect they showed him quite likely bit them in the ass this year.
Now the 2013 debacle with Emperor Schmitz begging for another bitch-slapping from a driver. The Jug Society could use a thorough house cleaning to knock a little starch out of their britches IMO.
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Now you sound just like the Jug pricks! It's written in the conditions that the guy is owed the $25,000 period. Would YOU chose to let them cheat YOU out of $25,000 that you had coming, while they told you that you didn't deserve an answer. I would have left in handcuffs.
A principal owner of The Captain was told he owed an extra $1,000 on his Jug entry fee a couple years ago, even though the conditions read differently. They refused to tell him why and he was furious. Everyone told him that it was someone else's call, and that 'someone' was never found. The owner could and would have paid $10,000 more if he had owed it. The disrespect they showed him quite likely bit them in the ass this year.
Now the 2013 debacle with Emperor Schmitz begging for another bitch-slapping from a driver. The Jug Society could use a thorough house cleaning to knock a little starch out of their britches IMO.
thumbsup thumbsup
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Right on JS. The guy got screwed. I don't blame him for being royally pissed. Antics like that should anger all horsemen everywhere. And, they make the guy pay for parking!! No wonder many don't care if they skip the Jug.
I know the folks in Ohio love it because it is an orgy of food, booze, drugs and sex. The rest of the country doesn't care at all. If you stop people on the street and asked them what is The Little Brown Jug those that had any answer would say it has something to do with football.
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Great Post JS.
We are hearing more and more of these stories every year. It is becoming the norm
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The County Fair was the only place I recall having to pay admission for a place where I had a horse racing that day.
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'If you stop people on the street and asked them what is The Little Brown Jug those that had any answer would say it has something to do with football.'
You could say this about the Meadowland's Pace, the Kentucky Futurity, Yonkers Trot, North American Cup, and probably the Hambo. The attendance for the Jug this year was 47k, The Meadowlands Pace draws what 15k and the Hambo 25k?
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'If you stop people on the street and asked them what is The Little Brown Jug those that had any answer would say it has something to do with football.'
You could say this about the Meadowland's Pace, the Kentucky Futurity, Yonkers Trot, North American Cup, and probably the Hambo. The attendance for the Jug this year was 47k, The Meadowlands Pace draws what 15k and the Hambo 25k?
True but the Pace and Hambo cards and maybe the NA Cup handle at LEAST 10 X's the Jug or the Yonkers
races. Like I said the Jug is a great time but the REAL gamblers stay away from 1/2 mile racing and now
it seems like a lot of the horsemen will be staying away also. idunno
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True but the Pace and Hambo cards and maybe the NA Cup handle at LEAST 10 X's the Jug or the Yonkers
races. Like I said the Jug is a great time but the REAL gamblers stay away from 1/2 mile racing and now
it seems like a lot of the horsemen will be staying away also. idunno
What was the Hambo handle for 2kk3? And the Pace?
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Here's what I know about Richard Young, who I met approximately 25 years ago:
1 - He's cheap, always has been. A friend used to work for him & was treated & paid like shit.
2 - One of the luckiest individuals I have ever met. Richard had a computer(?) distribution warehouse locally & was clueless but the money kept rolling in.
3 - Could talk to you for 2 hours picking your brains about harness racing, then see you the next day & had no idea who you were.
So Richard, who cares that you had to pay for parking like the rest of us! And that bonus - if he was truly owed that he would be suing. It makes sense that the bonus was eliminated when it became a two heat maximum.
I've heard many of the complaints about the Jug & Delaware Fairgrounds and am not disputing any of the other complaints but this one deserves no attention.
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Here's what I know about Richard Young, who I met approximately 25 years ago:
1 - He's cheap, always has been. A friend used to work for him & was treated & paid like shit.
2 - One of the luckiest individuals I have ever met. Richard had a computer(?) distribution warehouse locally & was clueless but the money kept rolling in.
3 - Could talk to you for 2 hours picking your brains about harness racing, then see you the next day & had no idea who you were.
So Richard, who cares that you had to pay for parking like the rest of us! And that bonus - if he was truly owed that he would be suing. It makes sense that the bonus was eliminated when it became a two heat maximum.
I've heard many of the complaints about the Jug & Delaware Fairgrounds and am not disputing any of the other complaints but this one deserves no attention.
Ya know what ? If they can fine the Drivers $500.00 for leaning back because it's in the rules then they can
pay the 20% bonus that THEY wrote in THEIR rules ! Right is right and wrong is wrong no matter if you
happen to like the person or not. noway The drivers are vocal about not wanting to race there the owners
are the same and ALL the big bettors and great cappers I know could care less about the Jug.
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Skipper, most people who I know would sue if they had a legitimate claim against a group they have bitterly complained about. It likely is not a legitimate claim.
And how many people do you know who just made $150k in a virtual walkover, who are so small they must complain about paying to park?
I flew to Ohio with 2 other family members, stayed in a hotel, ate the local food, fed their economy & didn't win $150k. I should be the one complaining about parking and $45 a seat on Jug day!
I get it Skipper - you feel like tradition means nothing. I just don't feel that way.
BTW, I'd take Maryanne over Ginger any day of the week. thumbsup
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I wouldn't be surprised to find more "Richard Youngs'" coming out of the woodwork. The $25,000 is only a drip in the bucket. There has been fingers in the til time to time at this fairgrounds and a few have been carted off to do a little R&R behind bars. Keeping 3 sets of books is the norm here and no one has been cuffed and escorted out for awhile. way over due.
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Great Post JS.
We are hearing more and more of these stories every year. It is becoming the norm
It has happened before but eventually someone goes to jail for it. There hasn't been a house cleaning for several years. Way overdue.
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'If you stop people on the street and asked them what is The Little Brown Jug those that had any answer would say it has something to do with football.'
You could say this about the Meadowland's Pace, the Kentucky Futurity, Yonkers Trot, North American Cup, and probably the Hambo. The attendance for the Jug this year was 47k, The Meadowlands Pace draws what 15k and the Hambo 25k?
3 to 4 X as many people would be able to identify the Hambo as a horse race as opposed to the Jug. I did comment on how big an event the Jug is with Ohio-billies. It is also big I'm sure with Hoosier hicks and maybe even a few Pennsypeons. As far as the other events go, nobody ever said they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Of the 47K at the Jug, I'm sure a lot of people went for the party, not the horse race, If you replaced the race with a tractor pull many wouldn't care. 8)
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If the 25,000$ meant this much to him why didn't he make sure in advance it was there?
In other businesses the people would make sure.
Sounds like he makes some valid points but he should have done his homework.
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3 to 4 X as many people would be able to identify the Hambo as a horse race as opposed to the Jug. I did comment on how big an event the Jug is with Ohio-billies. It is also big I'm sure with Hoosier hicks and maybe even a few Pennsypeons. As far as the other events go, nobody ever said they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Of the 47K at the Jug, I'm sure a lot of people went for the party, not the horse race, If you replaced the race with a tractor pull many wouldn't care. 8)
Hal the two posts you made are 1000000% right!!! My friend used to stay with me in the summers because Freehold closed and when it came time close to the Jug, the Ohioanites and their affinity for this race would go bonkers. All you heard was from others, "Are you going to the JUG?". Now mind you, Ronnie drove at the Meadowlands and Freehold, yonkers. I kept telling others HELL he see's those kind of horses and he drives with the top drivers in the sport EVERYDAY. It's like so what to him!!!
You know you said of the 47,000 people there, a lot just go for the party!!!!!!! I'd say at LEAST 1/2 go there to get drunk and stuff. Of course I'm going to get bashed, but it's my two cents about it. BTW it's not the first time people bitched about the people being in charged. And as Jordon said it was the only place that he had to pay even though he had a horse race!! Yep that's Ohio racing for ya. I had to pay many times years ago and it looks like they have carried over the tradition! rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1 thumbsdown thumbsdown thumbsdown thumbsdown thumbsdown thumbsdown thumbsdown thumbsdown thumbsdown thumbsdown thumbsdown thumbsdown
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What was the Hambo handle for 2kk3? And the Pace?
The Pace handled 4.3 million and the Hambo 6.9 million
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I can't get over the attitude of jealousy I'm reading. Just cavalierly condoning the taking away of someone else's $25,000. I would just LOVE to see the responses from those people when $25,000 of THEIR money was taken without justification. They'd squeal like pigs!
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I can't get over the attitude of jealousy I'm reading. Just cavalierly condoning the taking away of someone else's $25,000. I would just LOVE to see the responses from those people when $25,000 of THEIR money was taken without justification. They'd squeal like pigs!
Totally agree. Just because it is at the Jug, it is supposed to be ok. What a joke....
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I certainly do not condone any track not paying what is advertised. I really think if this is part of the conditions that Delaware fair will and should certainly pay the money. However, the program did not show that as part of the purse, thus I never heard about the bonus before.
idunno
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The Pace handled 4.3 million and the Hambo 6.9 million
So apx. twice as much and 3.5 times as much as the Jug, which does not have the Euro wagering network that M1 has. Thanks.
In previous years, the program said 10% of purse reserved for overall winner. In other words, raceoff winner, if there was a raceoffl; second heat winner if there wasn't.
The problem with the Jug is that it is a professional event run by amateurs. They are well-meaning, but all have other jobs and business concerns, for the most part. The confusion in the press box with getting heat draw info out to simulcast and so on was generally laughable (I was assistant simul director for a couple years). Even Jason S, who has been brought in as simul director and is as sharp as anyone in the business, gets a biit wide-eyed because it's "The Jug."
What they need to do is bring in a few business insiders and Delaware outsiders to the Little Brown Jug Society to give some different points of view.
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I can't get over the attitude of jealousy I'm reading. Just cavalierly condoning the taking away of someone else's $25,000. I would just LOVE to see the responses from those people when $25,000 of THEIR money was taken without justification. They'd squeal like pigs!
I'm Just Saying, I'd sue them, no doubt. Unless of course, I was under the wrong assumption with old info and couldn't get it through my thick head until it was too late to pull out of the race or I didn't even know about the $25,000 until somebody gave me old information and I was pissed that I had to pay $5 to park because I'm a cheap bastard with no class. If that were the case, I'd complain and not sue. That appears to be the road he has chosen.
And BTW, why was the only complaint about paying for parking coming from the guy who walked away with the most money?
But the bottom line is you have to ask yourself that if it is so clear that he is owed the money & has vowed never to come back (aww, we'll miss you), why wouldn't he sue them?
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And BTW, why was the only complaint about paying for parking coming from the guy who walked away with the most money?
He had a platform. Do you really think most owners weren't pissed they had to pay for parking and admission. I don't care if the guy is a billionaire, I don't care if the guy is a total jerk, he and others were screwed. Charging owners to see their horse race is like making a stage actor buy a ticket to get into the theater so he can perform. Some people are not sue happy. It's a long drawn out process and usually the lawyers are the only ones who really make out on it.
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3 to 4 X as many people would be able to identify the Hambo as a horse race as opposed to the Jug. I did comment on how big an event the Jug is with Ohio-billies. It is also big I'm sure with Hoosier hicks and maybe even a few Pennsypeons. As far as the other events go, nobody ever said they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Of the 47K at the Jug, I'm sure a lot of people went for the party, not the horse race, If you replaced the race with a tractor pull many wouldn't care. 8)
I think most people that go to the Preakness go for the party.
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I'm Just Saying, I'd sue them, no doubt. Unless of course, I was under the wrong assumption with old info and couldn't get it through my thick head until it was too late to pull out of the race or I didn't even know about the $25,000 until somebody gave me old information and I was pissed that I had to pay $5 to park because I'm a cheap bastard with no class. If that were the case, I'd complain and not sue. That appears to be the road he has chosen.
And BTW, why was the only complaint about paying for parking coming from the guy who walked away with the most money?
But the bottom line is you have to ask yourself that if it is so clear that he is owed the money & has vowed never to come back (aww, we'll miss you), why wouldn't he sue them?
So you don't like the guy, doesn't mean he is wrong. It is in the condition of the race!!!! it is not old info, it is in there FOR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! How hard is that to understand??? Did you even read the article or just saw a guy you didn't like and just started blasting him? WTF?
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So you don't like the guy, doesn't mean he is wrong. It is in the condition of the race!!!! it is not old info, it is in there FOR THIS YEAR!!!!!!! How hard is that to understand??? Did you even read the article or just saw a guy you didn't like and just started blasting him? WTF?
It has been in the conditions for years. So how many $25,000 has disappeared because there was not a race off? How do they balance the books year in and year out. Inquiring minds want to know.
Is anyone watching the chicken coop besides the foxes?
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It has been in the conditions for years. So how many $25,000 has disappeared because there was not a race off? How do they balance the books year in and year out. Inquiring minds want to know.
Is anyone watching the chicken coop besides the foxes?
Thank you Beans. At least this is a post from someone who actually races there, actually knows what goes on there, instead of someone who has gone to the jug 2 years in a row and thinks he knows what is going on..
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He had a platform. Do you really think most owners weren't pissed they had to pay for parking and admission. I don't care if the guy is a billionaire, I don't care if the guy is a total jerk, he and others were screwed. Charging owners to see their horse race is like making a stage actor buy a ticket to get into the theater so he can perform. Some people are not sue happy. It's a long drawn out process and usually the lawyers are the only ones who really make out on it.
Hal, when I raced at Maywood I had to pay admission. And I didn't race for $300k. Face it, the guy is a cheap bastard. If he has a right to the 25k he needs to sue them, if not for himself then for others after him. So I guess you can call him a cheap, selfish bastard if he is owed the money. None of this lawyer crap either. If he sues & wins he gets his attorney's fees paid by the losing party as part of the suit.
Thank you Beans. At least this is a post from someone who actually races there, actually knows what goes on there, instead of someone who has gone to the jug 2 years in a row and thinks he knows what is going on..
I never claimed to know what goes on there, never. I only mentioned that I knew the guy, think very little of him & won't take him at his word. Pezz, I missed meeting you again this year - where do you hang out at the Jug?
I would be interested to see the race rules though. The only thing I could find was this article which also mentions that Gural is part of the committee so if it is so corrupt, maybe someone should approach him.
http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/templates/article.aspx?articleid=39261&zoneid=1
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Good Luck finding the "real meat and potatoes" of the rules for the Jug and Jugette. Since these same folks have been in charge for the last 10 to 30 years they have covered their tracks pretty well but the info is still there just needs to be uncovered and it will be. There are people aware and The 'good ole boys ' are dying off or jumping ship and
things will be shook up pretty good and it's way over due. The gravy train is gonna derail. When it does I hope it doesn't taint the Jug and Jugette to the extent that it can't recover. It will be hard because of the amount of money in purses will only get better with so many states getting slot infused purses that the Jug and Jugette won't be as inviting as it once was.
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I'm Just Saying, I'd sue them, no doubt. Unless of course, I was under the wrong assumption with old info and couldn't get it through my thick head until it was too late to pull out of the race or I didn't even know about the $25,000 until somebody gave me old information and I was pissed that I had to pay $5 to park because I'm a cheap bastard with no class. If that were the case, I'd complain and not sue. That appears to be the road he has chosen.
And BTW, why was the only complaint about paying for parking coming from the guy who walked away with the most money?
But the bottom line is you have to ask yourself that if it is so clear that he is owed the money & has vowed never to come back (aww, we'll miss you), why wouldn't he sue them?
From what I understand the bonus was never written out of the conditions even though the raceoff was eliminated. In all likelihood the bonus will be awarded then eliminated from future races. As for bitching about parking , I think Mr. Young just stated an example of how poorly managed he feels the event is. If a losing owner said it , it might come off as sour grapes/petty. As was stated earlier Jug management has a full year to cross the T's and dot the I's to get it all right....it seems to me and others they have failed in doing so.
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b2bl- The same people have been in charge for years. They have had years to dot the i's and cross the t's and still don't get it right. The only thing that gets done right it what they put into their pockets. They are very good at that.
slaphead
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From what I understand the bonus was never written out of the conditions even though the raceoff was eliminated. In all likelihood the bonus will be awarded then eliminated from future races. As for bitching about parking , I think Mr. Young just stated an example of how poorly managed he feels the event is. If a losing owner said it , it might come off as sour grapes/petty. As was stated earlier Jug management has a full year to cross the T's and dot the I's to get it all right....it seems to me and others they have failed in doing so.
From everything that I'm reading here, I doubt that the bonus will be awarded because Young now (finally) understands that the bonus was included in the purse money & has been since last year.
I'm not doubting that there are problems with the Jug because so many regulars on here have complaints. As I mentioned in a previous post, why not go straight to a board member, Jeff Gural?
Why didn't Young go to Gural?
After all, it is likely that between M1, VD & Tgd, you have raced at least one or two times at a Gural run track. Seems logical to me.
My stance was taken because I knew Richard Young & have a low opinion of him, both personally & financially. Better lucky than good, though.
b2bl- The same people have been in charge for years. They have had years to dot the i's and cross the t's and still don't get it right. The only thing that gets done right it what they put into their pockets. They are very good at that.
slaphead
You seem like one of the more honorable people & I don't doubt your opinion in the least. I know, for example, that someone from the Jug office actually stopped a Canadian fellow (says he's been coming to the Jug for 35 years!) from selling 2 extra tickets he had for face value, warning him that was illegal in Ohio. I don't know whether it is or isn't but that's ball-busting.
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You seem like one of the more honorable people & I don't doubt your opinion in the least. I know, for example, that someone from the Jug office actually stopped a Canadian fellow (says he's been coming to the Jug for 35 years!) from selling 2 extra tickets he had for face value, warning him that was illegal in Ohio. I don't know whether it is or isn't but that's ball-busting.
Actually there is a law but it is REALLY cause they don't like you. Just seen it a couple of times where they had undercover cops doing that. (usually it was the Indians when they made the play-offs that they did it.)
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Actually there is a law but it is REALLY cause they don't like you. Just seen it a couple of times where they had undercover cops doing that. (usually it was the Indians when they made the play-offs that they did it.)
You can sell them for face value. Things changed a bit when a father was taking his two daughters to a game, had some extra tickets and tried to give them away.
The undercover cop said at least let me give you something for them, so he said ok maybe a few bucks to buy some food/drinks for my kids. Then he got arrested for scalping.
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You can sell them for face value. Things changed a bit when a father was taking his two daughters to a game, had some extra tickets and tried to give them away.
The undercover cop said at least let me give you something for them, so he said ok maybe a few bucks to buy some food/drinks for my kids. Then he got arrested for scalping.
Actually, the state is not involved, according to what I found:
Ohio ORC § 715.48
Municipal corporations are authorized to regulate and license ticket resale
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Actually, the state is not involved, according to what I found:
Ohio ORC § 715.48
Municipal corporations are authorized to regulate and license ticket resale
Worry about Florida
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I know the folks in Ohio love it because it is an orgy of food, booze, drugs and sex.
rflmao1 4pezz2 rflmao1 4pezz2 rflmao1 4pezz2
Thanks Hal....I have a cracked rib and I was laughing my ass off at your post
bowdown Hal
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I know the folks in Ohio love it because it is an orgy of food, booze, drugs and sex.
Can I skip the drugs and get seconds on all the other stuff?
PLEAZZZZE? rflmao1
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There is more to this story and Mr Young actually stated a redaction to his comments that was not posted in this story but WAS printed in Horseman and Fair World.
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I will read it later in H&FW. I'm really bored with it already. :P Things will continue as is and I'm too old to care anyway idunno