In The Sulky Forum
General Category => General Harness Racing Discussion => Topic started by: careless hal on March 18, 2013, 10:33:09 PM
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Doesn't mean the races are fixed, but WOW, the big boys can sure F*** with the odds leaving the average bettor in the dust.
Betting against cartel wagering
Monday, March 18, 2013 - by Joseph A. Faraldo
Editor's Note: Joseph A. Faraldo is an attorney and president of the Standardbred Owners Association of New York, representing the over 1,000 owners, trainers and drivers regularly competing at Yonkers Raceway, New York. He is a Director and past Chairman of the Board of the United States Trotting Association. The views contained in this column are that of the author alone, and do not necessarily represent the opinions or views of the United States Trotting Association.
The “loss leader” is a concept that has been used in business forever. Basically, a product is offered at a price that generates no profit for the sake of generating increased activity. So, if you make a million dollars in sales, but your production costs are a million, you really haven’t accomplished a whole heck of a lot.
It is only against this backdrop that one may appropriately consider the purported spike in handle at the New Meadowlands Racetrack. In this regard, there is a legitimate concern posed by the phenomenon referred to as “cartel wagering.”
The accommodation of the cartel at the New Meadowlands was recently exposed in an insightful Daily Racing Form article penned by Jay Bergman. Again, while everyone wants to see handle increase, the fundamental question that must be asked is at what cost?
The typical cartel represents a small group of sophisticated, moneyed players that have developed an elaborate, highly structured computer analysis handicapping and wagering system. The cartel then invests huge sums of money into track pools. Because of their level of investment, track management treats the cartel like an Advanced Deposit Wagering System. Unlike an ADW, however, the cartel doesn't take action from players like you or I; rather, it is the player.
Here’s how it works. The track that wants to increase handle sells its signal to the cartel just like it was an ADW, but at a cheaper rate. Why? Well the cartel is expected or obligated to guarantee a certain level of play at a track. For example, let's say the cartel commits to $300,000 in wagers per night on New Meadowlands races. To entice that level of play, the track sells its signal to the cartel for one-third the usual rate. Thus, while the New Meadowlands sells its signal to everybody else at a premium of around six percent, the Cartel is charged only two percent. Other tracks and ADWs still pay the higher rates.
So, how does the reality of this loss leader play out? Simply, even if handle is tripled, since the price charged to those responsible for a large component of that handle is a third of what it “sells” to other bettors, both the track and horsemen are still in the same position economically. The addition of gross handle in this fashion produces a zero-sum effect, resulting in no additional revenue being generated to increase purses or add a race day. Sadly, it has done nothing for increasing on-track wagering heralded as a major accomplishment at the New Meadowlands. If the strategy has any positive ramification at all, it is that added handle generates more handle from other entities, like ADWs or other tracks whose rate was not lowered. Presumably, this bump in activity could at some point produce some increase in retained revenue for enhanced purses, but at the cost of other fellow racetracks, their horsemen and ADWs who pay the premium rate.
What does it all mean? Thanks to crackerjack computer software, coupled with the benefit of being afforded bargain basement pricing by the track, the cartel make a profit at the expense of the other bettors. Meanwhile, the New Meadowlands makes a little extra money, but nowhere near the benefit it should be realizing from what is daily touted as harness racing’s largest handle. In effect, the high handle number is an illusion: Yes, there are a lot more dollars passing through the tote system, but very little of it produces a retained amount beneficial to the horsemen, the track or its investors who are played for more support.
The economic illusion serves as an excellent device to get more investors to contribute to track management.
It gets tiresome reading the daily pats on the back of growing handle because of all the smart things going on at the Meadowlands -- yet the truth is that there will be no additional race dates and no meaningful purse increases because, the truth be known, on-track handle is flat.
Then there is the potential for danger with these cartels. For example, an entity betting that $300,000 per card into pools via computer technology has the ability to manipulate those pools. A cartel certainly has the ability to, for example, create false favorites by pumping money into the win pool on an entrant/s in the first flashes of the tote board. It’s even more dangerous if, like ADWs, it can later cancel those wagers. Other bettors will be influenced to follow the early money.
The DRF article did glimpse at this when it discussed some early favorites that didn't really figure from a handicapping point of view. Was this the cartel, the big fish, placing money on a horse, sucking in others to believe that there was a reason for making the no apparent form horse the choice?
Sound crazy? Well there have been instances at the New Meadowlands where at the start of a race three or four horses open up with large win bets in equal denominations -- $2,000 to win on different horses in a race -- which distorts and skews the pool odds significantly. While the cartel may not be at the root of the Saturday (Feb. 16) late double at the New Meadowlands, the $17 horse and a $56 horse combined for a mere payoff of $133.00 in a $32,000 pool. Results like this are quite hard to ignore, much less justify to the non-cartel type bettor.
The bottom line is that while a steadily increasing handle sure looks good, and maybe lures more investment money to management’s pocket, it is not at all efficacious to the purse account. The cartel wagering entities come with risks that can produce more harm than good. The SOA of NY thought about dealing with cartels or, even worse, exchange wagering that NJ has authorized (where you can bet on a horse to lose). It’s just too huge a risk to integrity, and makes the payoff a bad bet, both long and short term.
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Sounds like The Skipper has been cleaning up very quietly at The Big M.
bowdown bowdown bowdown rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1
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Nothing new (or necessarily even 100% accurate) here boys. Just Faraldo being Faraldo. Move along.
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Lot of pissing and moaning over something that is little more then allegations that can't be substantiated. Faraldo obviously hates Gural and his success, so I usually disregard anything he has to say.
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Yep, there is no love between those two, Gural and Faraldo.....get's old after awhile. Interesting topic, however.
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Lot of pissing and moaning over something that is little more then allegations that can't be substantiated. Faraldo obviously hates Gural and his success, so I usually disregard anything he has to say.
Gural has admited to the cartel and giving it certain benefits the average gambler doesnt get.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgZxOsqbnJU
But its just like high rollers at the casino. They get certain benefits and comps the mere mortal gambler couldnt get.
Truth is without the hihg rollers and the problem gambler there wouldnt be a vegas or a gambling industry.
Just like if alcohol was not drank by people with drinking problems Budweiser and Jack Daniels would be in very serious financial trouble.
It doesnt bother me. But you have to knwo they can manipulate the boards on a whim.
You have to know that any rich person though could do that at just about any track at any time.
At least they are being open about it.
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I have moved along. I hardly ever bet the Big M anymore.
Whales that support casinos are not the same as the betting cartels. Whales are rich compulsive gamblers who can afford to buy in a blackjack game for $500,000 bet 25-50 thousand a hand and
lose no sleep if they lose it all. Whatever "perks" they get from the casino, they have paid for many times over. They are participants who like the action and look at it as a form of entertainment. In that fashion, they are like the $20 a hand bettor who craves action.
The cartels are in it to make money, not just for entertainment. They could care less about the entertainment aspect. In order for them to make money, others have to lose. This includes those who fancy themselves big bettors because they may bet a thousand or 2 on a card. They, along with the smaller fry, lose when that exacta, tri, pk 4 or 5 comes back short 10-20% or more! So they won, but not what they should have won. That pretty much results in making them losers in the long run. Anyone who thinks the cartels are really good for the sport is wrong. The cartel members don't get that rush that the average fan gets when your horse nips the favorite at the wire at 20-1. All the calculations are made by computer geeks who most likely have never been to a racetrack.
Think about what it means for somebody to bet, let's say $1,000 a week. Half of the American households make less than $50,000 a year.
Only about 14% of american households make more than $100,000 a year.. For even someone in that situation to bet $1,000 a week would be foolish.
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I respect your old school mentality.
I agree with alot of what you are saying.
I dont bet the Big M except the few times a year I attend in person.
I have issues with the things needed to be done at the top level big purse tracks.
But thats not what this topic is about.
I also understand how important the big M is to the sport and how important its success is to everyone else.
Bob my barber here in Waldorf. Goes to Rosecroft to make his 2 and 3 dollar bets and only bets the Meadowlands.
He doesnt know about the cartels or the take outs or pool sizes but he goes and has fun betting the meadowlands.
Its in everyones interest that the big M does well.
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Its in everyones interest that the big M does well.
That I think is the old school mentality. If you enjoy betting the Big M that's great. Go for it.
But a track that can only operate 2 days a week? Boy, are we in trouble. Let's face it. If the Big M doesn't get slots, that is all it ever will be in the future. I don't want to hear "if only they promoted the sport more. They are promoting it, to the $300,000 a day cartels. They could give a flying F*** about Bob the barber. I fully understand that Gural is trying to keep things afloat until he can get slots. That is his main goal and as a businessman, you can"t fault him fpr that. As the Bob the barbers die off, it is the cartels that will keep the place going. If they pull out,---Adios.
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I have not been following the Meadowlands...have all these huge handles produced purse increases for the horsemen?
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I have not been following the Meadowlands...have all these huge handles produced purse increases for the horsemen?
not that I have noticed
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He is simply treating the cartel as its own ADW, due to its volume. They pay a percentage of wagers as any simulcast location would and the rest of the takeout becomes their "rebate."
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He is simply treating the cartel as its own ADW, due to its volume. They pay a percentage of wagers as any simulcast location would and the rest of the takeout becomes their "rebate."
I understand that. But, do the owners of let's say, Twinspires, try and mianipulate the odds?
They have a huge advantage over let's say the poor slob who bets $500-$1000 to win on a horse.
The "casual" or "average bettor, who is plunking down $5 0r $10 to win, may not care as much, until he gets screwed out of $100 or more on an exacta or tri hit.
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Gural Responds.
Meadowlands responds to Faraldo's comments
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March 20, 2013 | Print View
While it is unfortunate that Mr. Faraldo has targeted the Meadowlands in another public outburst that would have been better left to a private discussion, due to the vast inaccuracies in his "editorial,” the Meadowlands Racetrack feels compelled to respond.
Yes, the Meadowlands Racetrack, like many other racetracks with larger-sized pools has players that bet through a computer-assisted wagering system. The notion that these players are a "cartel” is erroneous. Contrary to Mr. Faraldo's beliefs, the Meadowlands Racetrack has not been made any guarantees from a wagering prospective by these players.
For full disclosure, prior to the start of our meet, the Meadowlands has amended an existing simulcast agreement with one of our present customers which would likely result in their increased wagering. We did this mainly to see if by their added handle it would encourage others to wager into the larger pools. To protect ourselves and our customers that if there was a problem, we intentionally added a clause that would allow us to cancel the agreement on three days-notice. Fortunately the results are better than expected. That increase has been nearly $7 million, or 29 percent of our overall handle increase. However, there has been additional 71 percent in increases from other sources, just as we had hoped. Therefore, the idea that these bettors are creating "the illusion of beneficial revenue” is false.
The simple truth is these players bet more than the average customer, thus receive a larger rebate. This is a concept that has existed since the opening of casinos in this country. A $1,000 per hand blackjack player is going to receive a larger rebate than a $10 per hand player.
The allegation that New Jersey horsemen are not seeing "beneficial revenue” is also false. By the end of this racing season, the S.B.O.A.N.J. will receive additional revenue well into six-figures directly from these larger players. The agreement was made with the full support of the S.B.O.A.N.J. and it's leader, Tom Luchento had this to say: "The Meadowlands Racetrack and the SBOANJ have an outstanding relationship. We support each other in everything we do. The Meadowlands Racetrack is an industry leader in moving this sport in the right direction and utilizing new ideas to make The Meadowlands successful. The idea that the management at the Meadowlands and Jeff Gural would ever do something that would harm the horsemen of New Jersey is utterly ridiculous and offensive to both The Meadowlands and the horsemen of New Jersey.”
Mr. Faraldo also questions the revenue earned by the Meadowlands on these bettors in relation to the purse account. For full disclosure, The Meadowlands has carried an overpayment into the purse account for 2013 of nearly $300,000. Thanks to our game plan for 2013, we are on track to wipe out that overpayment by years-end. It is impossible to raise purses until it is proven that we will continue to have full fields since the Pennsylvania tracks have opened and a total handle that continues to perform at the same consistent level it has all year.
Furthermore, the allegation that the Meadowlands is misleading its investors and "playing them for more support” is both erroneous and defamatory. The Meadowlands Racetrack is in constant communication with our investors as they are given daily updates of how our business is doing. They have been extremely pleased with the progress we have made in 2013 at both The Meadowlands Racetrack and Winners Bayonne.
It comes as quite a shock that Mr. Faraldo would grow "tiresome” of reading about The Meadowlands success. The national handle figures published on the USTA website, show an increase of over $50 Million in industry-wide betting handle in 2013. The Meadowlands Racetrack is responsible for 45 percent of that increase. Thus, the Meadowlands is literally driving the industry in the right direction. But rather than supporting the Meadowlands, since the industry is clearly so dependent upon its success, he tries to tear it down. This is one of the major problems within our industry today.
In his editorial, Mr. Faraldo touches upon the subject of integrity. With all due respect, no racetrack in this sport has done more to promote integrity than The Meadowlands. No person in this sport has done more to promote integrity than Jeff Gural. When a trainer is suspended, the Meadowlands does not allow that trainer's horses to be raced under an "assistants” name for the duration of that suspension. We believe our customers appreciate the stand we have taken in this regard and it is reflected in our handle.
Additionally, Mr. Faraldo cites two examples that could represent the danger of these larger players and the potential for pool manipulation. Let's put this to rest right now. Neither of his two examples have anything to do with larger computer-assisted wagers. The individual that wagers $2,000 to win on multiple horses does so at a simulcast facility at a teller window. Furthermore, the $2,000 win bets are never cancelled, so where is the pool manipulation? The daily double made reference to was also predominantly due to an individual who placed a large daily double wager at the Meadowlands. After looking into the wager, there was nothing suspicious or "manipulative” about the wager. Neither incident stemmed from large computer bettors at all.
We apologize that this editorial required a public response and we hope to have clarified the issues raised by Mr. Faraldo to our betting customers as they are what matters the most to us. Lastly, if Mr. Faraldo took issue with a business decision the Meadowlands Racetrack made, he should have contacted us privately and professionally. Quite frankly, his concerns should focus on the Standardbred horsemen of New York and he should leave the Meadowlands to us. After all, despite boasting large purses thanks to an approximate $50 Million casino-subsidized purse account, The Meadowlands consistently handles five times more wagering dollars than Yonkers on Saturday night. This is because large purses alone do not make for a great betting product. However, the integrity-driven, quality racing that the Meadowlands presents does make for that great betting product. (Meadowlands)
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nice to hear from somebody that actually gets it..kudos to Mr Gural bowdown
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FWIW, New Jersey facilities have been notorious for odds manipulations (or their bettors have been). Nearly EVERY disappearing wager at Northfield from 2009 until I was let go was a Jersey wager.
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More actual facts than some conspiracy
By Bill Finley Harnessracing update
By Bill Finley
If "cartel wagering" put more money into the pocket's of
horsemen racing at the Meadowlands would Joe Faraldo be
in favor of it? Faraldo would probably rather get scurvy than
see Jeff Gural make more money at the Meadowlands and
he's never exactly been a champion
of the bettor. But that's fine. He is
not paid to represent the
horseplayer and whether or not a
New Jersey track operator is making
money is not really his concern. But
as the head of the Standardbred
Owners Association of New York
Faraldo has been a fierce fighter
when it comes to horsemen, their
rights and how much money they
make. So would Faraldo be in favor
of something that has added to the
total in the purse account? Of
course he would.
So what was Faraldo thinking
when he penned an incendiary
column the other day criticizing what
he called "cartel wagering" at the
Meadowlands? Was his calculator on the fritz? And as the
head of the group representing horsemen at Yonkers why
hasn't he been demanding that management at Old Hilltop start doing more to attract huge bettors, like the
Meadowlands has?
The mistake Faraldo made the other day when he
bashed the Meadowlands and, basically, called the handle
increases there a fraud, was that he hit the send button
before he had all the facts straight. By giving rebates to a
single large player the Meadowlands has increased its
handle, made more money for itself and this particular
bettor, and, yes, put more money into the purse account.
It's obvious where Faraldo made his mistake when he
wrote "The addition of gross handle in this fashion
produces a zero-sum effect, resulting in no additional
revenue being generated to increase purses or add a race
day. Sadly, it has done nothing for increasing on-track
wagering heralded as a major accomplishment at the New
Meadowlands." He based his claims on handle "tripling"
because of the rebate being given to the big player. If that
is all that had happened, Faraldo wouldn't have been too
far off. The Meadowlands wouldn't have accomplished
much of anything rather than shifting a lot of money into
the pocket of one player.
But the handle from the player didn't triple. It increased
by 700 percent. The same player that had bet $1 million at the prior meet when not getting a rebate has wagered $8
million.
According to industry sources, the Meadowlands sells its
signal for $5.375 percent, with half that total going to the
track and half going to horsemen. That means that when the
player bet $1 million, the track made $28,000 and the
horsemen made $28,000.
Faraldo was correct
when he claimed that by
giving the customer the
rebates the Meadowlands
was effectively selling its
signal for 2 percent. That's
because the Meadowlands
is giving the big player a
rebate of roughly 3
percent, which comes off
the 5.375 percent it gets
paid by the ADW operator
that processes the player's
bets.
So, what's 2 percent of 8 million? It's $160,000, $80,000 for
the Meadowlands, $80,000 for the horsemen. It's only March
and the horsemen have already made an additional $52,000.
If the big player continues to wager at the same rate the
horsemen will have made about $150,000 extra before the
meet is over thanks to the Meadowlands' policy of rebating
the player.
The rest of Faraldo's accusations are nonsense. Yes, there
is someone who often bets $2,000 on more than one horse
at the very beginning of the wagering. It is not the "cartel" but
a particular bettor with some odd wagering habits who has
never once canceled his bets. Yes, a daily double at the
Meadowlands came back too low, but it was because the
owner of one of the winning horses personally made a large
bet on the winning combination.
The Meadowlands is having a good meet and is doing so
without any funny business. In a way, at least with the
rebates, it got lucky. Probably no one ever imagined the
player would increase his betting by so much, the reason
why the rebate program has been such a success. But the
track was smart enough to insert an out clause in the
contract with the bettor. Had he not increased his betting by
a significant amount the deal would have been off.
Faraldo is not alone. The industry has always
misunderstood rebates and how they are most often a
win-win. Even the Meadowlands once blew this. Last year
they were offered the same proposal by the bettor and
turned him down.
The primary reason why betting on race horses is not more
popular is because the takeout is so enormous that, really,
no one can win. There just aren't enough people out there
willing to consistently lose their shirts, especially when every
other gambling game but the lottery offers fairer odds. By
giving the player a rebate you are essentially reducing the
takeout and making the game beatable. The big player knows that with rebates they may have a 2 or 3 percent
edge and the only way to make serious money is to churn
huge amounts through the windows. The slice of the pie
may be smaller but the pie grows much bigger and
everyone wins. And that's precisely what has happened
at the Meadowlands. What they have accomplished with
the rebates and this bettor is a perfect example of how,
when this is done right, everyone (the horsemen included)
benefits.
The irony is that Yonkers needs the "cartel" much more
than the Meadowlands and welcoming them could have a
huge positive impact on handle there. The Meadowlands
says that the big bettor has added money into the pools,
which has enticed other bettors to play more. I'm not sure
that's the case. The Meadowlands pools are by far the
biggest in the sport and probably didn't need any extra
money to pump up handle from other bettors. That's not
the case at Yonkers. The pools are so small there that a
lot of big bettors who won't play there. If the "cartel" were
ever to come to Yonkers its play would likely have an
impact that goes beyond the money it bets.
Then again, maybe the "cartel" won't do for Yonkers
what it did for the Meadowlands, but Faraldo should at
least look into enticing some of these big bettors to wager
more on Yonkers races by offering them rebates. He
shouldn’t be criticizing the Meadowlands. He should be
copying them.
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thnaks for posting the article pezz !
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thnaks for posting the article pezz !
Ditto that. Long, but good read.
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The truth is often what you want to hear or want to believe. Sure, Faraldo and Gural most likely hate each others guts. Those who worship Gural will believe his version as the "truth" Those who don't--won't. No doubt, Gural deserves praise for his efforts to save the BigM, no matter what his motives.
This is how I see it. You can't compare casinos and racetracks. The tracks are pari-mutual, the casinos are putting up their money versus yours. The churn at a casino is much faster than at a track. Thus, they can offer lower takes than a track. If you lose at a track, the other bettors get most of your money. Lose at a casino, they get it all. The way I see it, cheaters and odds manipulators are stealing my money. Gural is trying to crack down on cheating by horsemen and that is good. In the long run, these huge cartels IMHO can't be good for racing. I'm lucky to get only a 15% take on some bets, while they get a 2% take. Sorry, I just don't see the wisdom of that.
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The truth is often what you want to hear or want to believe. Sure, Faraldo and Gural most likely hate each others guts. Those who worship Gural will believe his version as the "truth" Those who don't--won't. No doubt, Gural deserves praise for his efforts to save the BigM, no matter what his motives.
This is how I see it. You can't compare casinos and racetracks. The tracks are pari-mutual, the casinos are putting up their money versus yours. The churn at a casino is much faster than at a track. Thus, they can offer lower takes than a track. If you lose at a track, the other bettors get most of your money. Lose at a casino, they get it all. The way I see it, cheaters and odds manipulators are stealing my money. Gural is trying to crack down on cheating by horsemen and that is good. In the long run, these huge cartels IMHO can't be good for racing. I'm lucky to get only a 15% take on some bets, while they get a 2% take. Sorry, I just don't see the wisdom of that.
They are only bad when they win the same time you do.
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They are only bad when they win the same time you do.
thumbsup Exactly. It goes both ways. That $2000 bettor doesn't seem to win often. I've caught inflated prices a few times thanks to his losing wagers being in the pool.
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Would one of the plethora of Gural ass kissers lend me their rosé colored glasses?
Need them to improve my shity attitude!
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Would one of the plethora of Gural ass kissers lend me their rosé colored glasses?
Need them to improve my shity attitude!
Amazing that you keep posting about a track that you claim to never bet anymore. If you don't bet it anymore, why do you give a shit about what is going on there?
Your favorite track is the most corrupt in the game and yet you find a way to post anything negative you can about a track that most people love. Looks to me that only one person here has an agenda and that is you!
Gural told everyone way back in January that this group was doing this. Why the big surprise now? There is no surprise, but you happened to read an article bashing the place, and felt you needed to post it. Well that article was put to shame the minute this goof who has done nothing for racing wrote it, and he didn't even have the facts correct at the same time. But you wanna believe it go right ahead.
Yet you still bet balmoral, talk about a hypocrite...
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Thanks for proving my point! thumbsup thumbsup