In The Sulky Forum
General Category => General Harness Racing Discussion => Topic started by: Elgin on October 02, 2012, 12:38:51 PM
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Market Share
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Market Share
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The Futurity has been raced since 1893, 33 years longer than the Hambletonion. Many of the greatest trotters in the history of the sport have won the race.
These trainers have completely lost the right to complain about the demise of the sport.
And remember, once the slots agreements expire, many states will phase out the requirement to have live racing.
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Different situation, imo. Toscano says we won;t go two heats and finds a spot that is not two heats, instead of disrespecting the race and its tradition, as well as the sport. Not happy about it (and a no-win for her, imo- if he wins, well duh, and if something bad happens, yikes) but I have far less problem with this call.
Agree. Class act and eventual horse of the year winner. bowdown
I get dolfans points.
But I also think trainers/owners protecting thier horses is a good thing.
Now if we could get them to care about a cheap 4 claimer that would be something.
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Thankfully, Market Share drew the rail in that 10K late closer on Saturday. If they simply kept him out of the limelight and tuned him up in a qualifier, there would be no issue, but sticking him in this race, the day before the Futurity, is an embarrassment to all involved. He
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Thankfully, Market Share drew the rail in that 10K late closer on Saturday. If they simply kept him out of the limelight and tuned him up in a qualifier, there would be no issue, but sticking him in this race, the day before the Futurity, is an embarrassment to all involved. He
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thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
I still say the colonail is the race of the year.
I guess I am just a glass half full person.
I would think you guys would get your satisfaction that my buddy is no longer in the top 10 at all.
Regarding the Maryland sire stakes on the 27th. You are all invited. I may even sneak a cooler in so beers courtesy of 3WW.
P.S. you forgot about the preliminary on the 20th. I think that goes for 3,000$
Have you championed anymore bougus causes with those pondscum friends of yours? The whole story was nothing but a pack of lies started by the Doherty chick to help the jealous owner get back a horse she dumped. What a DOPE!
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Have you championed anymore bougus causes with those pondscum friends of yours? The whole story was nothing but a pack of lies started by the Doherty chick to help the jealous owner get back a horse she dumped. What a DOPE!
WTF does this have to do with this thread?
I am forwarding Gary your 50th profane insane email to me.
I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt but this is enough.
I really find it hard to believe that you are allowed to do this over and over again.
I come here to try to avoid this.
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thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
I still say the colonail is the race of the year.
I guess I am just a glass half full person.
I would think you guys would get your satisfaction that my buddy is no longer in the top 10 at all.
Regarding the Maryland sire stakes on the 27th. You are all invited. I may even sneak a cooler in so beers courtesy of 3WW.
P.S. you forgot about the preliminary on the 20th. I think that goes for 3,000$
I didn
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I didn
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he isn't the horse of the year 3 WW. you can keep saying it in every post, but he isn't going to be HOTY. 3 year old trotter yes, but not HOTY
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he isn't the horse of the year 3 WW. you can keep saying it in every post, but he isn't going to be HOTY. 3 year old trotter yes, but not HOTY
Someone else will top the 1,700,00.00?
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Market Share has earned a pile of money and he
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thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
I still say the colonail is the race of the year.
I guess I am just a glass half full person.
I would think you guys would get your satisfaction that my buddy is no longer in the top 10 at all.
Regarding the Maryland sire stakes on the 27th. You are all invited. I may even sneak a cooler in so beers courtesy of 3WW.
P.S. you forgot about the preliminary on the 20th. I think that goes for 3,000$
The funny thing is, if Goo sweeps his elimination and the final of the MDSS, I think that may be enough to win him HOY honors.
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The funny thing is, if Goo sweeps his elimination and the final of the MDSS, I think that may be enough to win him HOY honors.
He beat the horse of the year.
Straight up on the track. Even with the HOY inside pylons.
Just sayin.
I am glad you see the honor for him. bowdown bowdown bowdown
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Someone else will top the 1,700,00.00?
if captaintreacherous wins out he willget it. Only one loss on the year
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if captaintreacherous wins out he willget it. Only one loss on the year
Have to agree with you Pezzy. He's gone some fast miles for a 2yo, but hasn't been roughed up. You never know about a young'un with that kind of speed holding together, but he seems to be able to handle it so far. Hope he gets it.
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The Captain should get it only if CMO falters in the BC and he wins that race. The filly has twice as many starts. She won 11 of 13 thus far. She holds the world record on 5/8 and mile tracks. She won the Bluegrass, Elegantimage, Miller, Zweig and Hudson Filly. She
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Now this is my own opinion if i owned the horse..what happens if you do race him and he goes 2 heats and it kinks him. he still has the breeders crown and the matron. imo the breeders crown is a bigger race the then the futurity. 2 heat racing is a dinosaur idea that needs to be phased out. i was reading something about wanting to take the money away from a horse if he doesnt race in the 2nd heat. thats not anyones call except the trainer and owner. would you rather as a better have a horse scratch or would u rather have the trainer tell the driver drag him back to last and dont ruff him up. myself i would rather have 8 horses that wanna win.
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WTF does this have to do with this thread?
I am forwarding Gary your 50th profane insane email to me.
I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt but this is enough.
I really find it hard to believe that you are allowed to do this over and over again.
I come here to try to avoid this.
GSAC, love you Rick Yarter
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GSAC, love you Rick Yarter
you have 42 posts of worthlessness. Even I try to contribute something good once in awhile.
And I assume you got the nickname the gripper based on the handjobs you give in exchange for $2 show bets.
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I don't quite understand how people complain about how Rich races his horse as Market Share was a $16,000 yearling purchase whose fastest win time was 1.58.4 and never left Freehold last year. I guess you're saying he should have spent $30,000 and staked him to everything but if you stake every yearling to everything it's a formula for losing a lot of money.
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...if you stake every yearling to everything it's a formula for losing a lot of money.
amen
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I don't quite understand how people complain about how Rich races his horse as Market Share was a $16,000 yearling purchase whose fastest win time was 1.58.4 and never left Freehold last year. I guess you're saying he should have spent $30,000 and staked him to everything but if you stake every yearling to everything it's a formula for losing a lot of money.
Nobody is faulting him for not staking Market Share to everything: My point is that it would be nice to see the top three-year-old colt trotter, who happens to be the sport's overall money-champ, racing in the Kentucky Futurity. At one time there were no supplemental entries allowed for this race, but now one can buy in. Having Market Share and Maven, who wasn't staked to the filly futurity but could also buy her way in, racing in late closers at The Red Mile on the same weekend as the Futurities just doesn't play right. This is true more for MS than Maven, because he's the division leader while she is not.
Market Share, Maven and CMO might have been better off prepping for the BC someplace else. If that were the case it wouldn't be an issue.
Those who think the powers that be in Delaware and Lexington will be eliminating same-day heats because some trainers and owners don't like them will wait a long, long time for that to happen. Look at the way the Jug, Jugette and Confederation Cup brought those tracks to life.
This isn't a staking issue. $62,700 is a very small piece of Market Share's $1.7 million 2012 bankroll. I find it hard to believe the supplemental fee played any part in their decision. When Toscano announced this, she said something along the lines of, I'm probably not a very popular person right now. She knew this wouldn't sit well with a number of people.
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Nobody is faulting him for not staking Market Share to everything: My point is that it would be nice to see the top three-year-old colt trotter, who happens to be the sport's overall money-champ, racing in the Kentucky Futurity. At one time there were no supplemental entries allowed for this race, but now one can buy in. Having Market Share and Maven, who wasn't staked to the filly futurity but could also buy her way in, racing in late closers at The Red Mile on the same weekend as the Futurities just doesn't play right. This is true more for MS than Maven, because he's the division leader while she is not.
Market Share, Maven and CMO might have been better off prepping for the BC someplace else. If that were the case it wouldn't be an issue.
Those who think the powers that be in Delaware and Lexington will be eliminating same-day heats because some trainers and owners don't like them will wait a long, long time for that to happen. Look at the way the Jug, Jugette and Confederation Cup brought those tracks to life.
This isn't a staking issue. $62,700 is a very small piece of Market Share's $1.7 million 2012 bankroll. I find it hard to believe the supplemental fee played any part in their decision. When Toscano announced this, she said something along the lines of, I'm probably not a very popular person right now. She knew this wouldn't sit well with a number of people.
Elgin,
What gives you the right to say how Rich should spend his $62,700? The man just retired after working his entire life. Yes he has those 2 really nice horses, Market Share and Chapter Seven but I would wager you haven't heard of several of his 2 year olds this year although Southwind Cocoa performed very well.
He staked the horse well and didn't stake him to every event. Market Share has little to prove to anybody and Rich has done lots for the sport and brought back Chapter Seven this year while several other 3 year olds didn't come back.
If you truly believe Rich should race in races like this you are free to spend hundreds of hours researching bloodlines and watching videos and inspect the horses personally at farms and at the sales.
I'm proud to say that Rich is a great friend and really can't understand how one person on a message board can argue how someone he doesnt even know should risk their $62,700. The prices of trotters at the Lexington sale this week have been sky high and I have been outbid on every horse. I bid on a 6th foal where every prior foal sold for $35,000 - $40,000 and this one sold for $67,000. Credit Winners have sold for huge prices because there are so few of them. And where has Rich been all week Elgin? In Lexington, at the sale where he already won one and got outbid on another higher end purchase.
This is not a sport that costs little. Racing 2 and 3 year olds on the east coast and in major stakes races may cost big money, shipping, farriers, training, stall rent, vet, staking, starting fees, equipment, etc, etc, etc and when it comes down to it some people are lucky to be profitable and try to purchase other horses. I believe Rich has raced in this race before and if he staked into it, would race in it. He has never been afraid to race his horses against anyone or at any track in any race. If you felt that strongly maybe you should have offered to pay the supplemental fee yourself a week ago. Knowing Rich he may have taken you up on it.
Staking is one of the toughest decisions in this sport. We don't really know how good our 2 year olds are in February. My best 2 year old I staked pretty good and she never raced this year. There are no refunds.
Harrisburg is coming up next month Elgin. Please find yourself some special horses and stake them heavily. It can cost over $150,000 to race a trotter through its 3 year old season staked to all. And if you stake every one of your 2 year olds to everything and have a few lean years you can easily go bankrupt, but feel free to say how someone who has done lots for the sport should run his business and race his horses.
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you have 42 posts of worthlessness. Even I try to contribute something good once in awhile.
And I assume you got the nickname the gripper based on the handjobs you give in exchange for $2 show bets.
rflmao1
Ha thanks Jeremy.
He is a twisted one. I totaly ignore his posts for the most part and the numerous deranged emails. Those are where the real fun is.
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Market Share wins Late Closer at Red Mile
Saturday, October 06, 2012 - from the USTA Communications Department
Lexington, KY --- Hambletonian champion Market Share, who was not eligible to the Kentucky Futurity, captured a $10,000 Late Closer on Saturday (Oct. 6) at The Red Mile in a lifetime best 1:50.3.
Tim Tetrick drove the Linda Toscano trained son of Revenue S-Classical Flirt to his eighth win in 16 season's starts, improving his 2012 bankroll to $1,766,455. The colt is owned by Richard Gutnick, TLP Stable and William Augustine.
As Lightning Storm took the field by the three-quarters in 1:23.3, Market Share was out and rolling. He took over the lead at the top of the stretch and was never headed in the lifetime best mile. Prayer Session rallied to finish second and Lightning Storm finished third.
"It was just to get him tight two weeks from now for the Breeders Crown (on racing him in this spot)," said co-owner Richard Gutnick. "We thought this would keep him tight. I was surprised myself to see how wrapped up (he was) for him to do it in 1:50.3.
"I feel very good (going into the Breeders Crown). I told Tim you didn't want to break 1:50 today because you are saving it for Chapter Seven (the Gutnick owned free-for-all trotter who races here Sunday)! I had to tease him a little bit."
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I don't quite understand how people complain about how Rich races his horse as Market Share was a $16,000 yearling purchase whose fastest win time was 1.58.4 and never left Freehold last year. I guess you're saying he should have spent $30,000 and staked him to everything but if you stake every yearling to everything it's a formula for losing a lot of money.
Yea Goo goo wasnt even a purchase or even a breeding. He was the farm mare with the farm stud. Truly a miracle. For me that he isnt going to run around this year and chase everyone and supplement to everything is fine. The 650,000$ with a little more coming from the Matron and MDSS is OK.
BTW He is in to qualify today at 5 pm at Rosecroft.
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JJ, if the only people entitled to weigh in on a particular horse were the owners of said horse and their nearest and dearest, this sport would be in much sorrier shape than it is now. 99% of what has been said and written about Market Share is positive, but you're knawing on that 1% like a dog on a bone.
That was a genuine crush job at The Red Mile today. He treated that field like colts that don't belong on the same track with him.
Congratulations to all involved.
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JJ, if the only people entitled to weigh in on a particular horse were the owners of said horse and their nearest and dearest, this sport would be in much sorrier shape than it is now. 99% of what has been said and written about Market Share is positive, but you're knawing on that 1% like a dog on a bone.
That was a genuine crush job at The Red Mile today. He treated that field like colts that don't belong on the same track with him.
Congratulations to all involved.
what gives you the right to say how someone should spend their $62,700?
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what gives you the right to say how someone should spend their $62,700?
Its a forum and thats what this is for discussion.
As long as people are decent to each other etc etc.
In this case I for the most part agree with you.
Esp the heat racing. If you have a horse that is sore or is prone to be sore you shouldnt feel compelled to do heat racing.
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I think the point is people want to see the best athletes competing against each other, when some of the athletes are skipping events it makes the excitement less for the race. You can't get a fan base going if there is really only one or two horses that have a shot to win a race.
EDIT: Second comment wasn't relevant enough for my argument.
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As far as telling people what to do with their money, let me ask you this JJ. If a majority of people didn't want the money from the slots to go towards horse racing purses (which I doubt they do) would you be fine with that if they took all the slot money away from you? It is their money going into the machines when they lose they should be able to choose a charity or a rewards program to put it to.
Jeremy,
The people who are putting their money in these slot machines do not have the funds inevitable distribution hidden from them. The split in NY is as follows:
1) New York State Department of Education
2) Owner of the entity (racetrack)
3) Horsemen and breeders
I do not believe these gamblers really care about the inevitable distribution and are attempting to win money. As far as having the money taken away, I would NOT want that but if it ever was I would NOT race as many horses and would stop purchasing yearlings. The idea of investing is to understand the landscape and invest accordingly. I would prefer the current format as there are thousands of people working in this business with tens of millions of dollars invested by breeders, owners and racetracks and the last thing this country needs is further unemployment and more shopping malls.
As far as telling Richard how to race his horse, Market Share started racing in April this year, not May or June like many other horses and probably raced more than some of his competitors this year. When Rich crafted his plan for his horse, he started at Freehold (where else for this horse?), and planned the year with the best interest of the horse to race to the Breeders Crown if he was good enough. This was the plan and he stuck to it.
Market Share could have broken 1.50 today if he was asked and in my opinion racing the horse in heats after starting the year in April would be too much to ask for a horse this close to the Breeders Crown.
I respect Rich lots and he's one of my closest friends. I never thought this horse could be this good but Rich has a goal and that is to win 2 Breeders Crown events this year and I hope he gets his goal, and I certainly root for Linda Toscano all the time. She's all class and she always was.
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My comment didn't make the sense I thought it would when I was typing it, so I deleted that part.
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"While Red Mile patrons appreciated the chance to see
Market Share in action, one fan seated in the grandstand
yelled, "Shoulda been in the Futurity!""
was that you Elgin?
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The Captain should get it only if CMO falters in the BC and he wins that race. The filly has twice as many starts. She won 11 of 13 thus far. She holds the world record on 5/8 and mile tracks. She won the Bluegrass, Elegantimage, Miller, Zweig and Hudson Filly. She
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There's that Alagna guy again with MY MVP thumbsup
Nice drive on Guccio shootme
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Or how about in her one heat in the futurity? :D
No answer for that performance. A real head-scratcher.
On the other hand, the Captain didn't exactly cover himself with glory yesterday. Is Dedi's Dragon that good, or is the Captain coming back to the group?
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There's that Alagna guy again with MY MVP thumbsup
Nice drive on Guccio shootme
The Takter's aren't the sole owner's of Guccio. Can't the others bring themselves to tell Jimmy to put a human being behind that poor colt. He drifts out of the seven and manages to wind up as the first over torch bearer. Takter will have his sorry ass in the bike come the BC, too. He apparently doesn't get it.
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No answer for that performance. A real head-scratcher.
On the other hand, the Captain didn't exactly cover himself with glory yesterday. Is Dedi's Dragon that good, or is the Captain coming back to the group?
thumbsup But the Captain did hang on to win.
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you have 42 posts of worthlessness. Even I try to contribute something good once in awhile.
And I assume you got the nickname the gripper based on the handjobs you give in exchange for $2 show bets.
yeah, I'm trying to raise money for your sister's new false teeth. Ok deliverence?
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yeah, I'm trying to raise money for your sister's new false teeth. Ok deliverence?
In your world sisters are better than moms?
Can you post a chart?
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yeah, I'm trying to raise money for your sister's new false teeth. Ok deliverence?
Market Share's sister is toothless? ...how odd.
If I didn't know better, I'd say someone is trying to derail a thread.
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Market Share's sister is toothless? ...how odd.
If I didn't know better, I'd say someone is trying to derail a thread.
(http://static.fastcommerce.com/content/ff80808119dc9afd011b477bf78b135f/mainimages/Stern%2073.jpg)
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In your world sisters are better than moms?
Can you post a chart?
I am just glad he is raising money for a new set instead of used.
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thumbsup But the Captain did hang on to win.
Division wise, it did CMO some good to have Maven lose that LC. Maven had an opportunity to make up some ground on CMO and she blew it.
Yes, Win Missy B won the Filly Futurity, but prior to that her only open staked win was a division of the Reynolds. It's kind of late in the game for her to catch up.