In The Sulky Forum
General Category => General Harness Racing Discussion => Topic started by: AmyHollar on May 24, 2012, 11:54:43 AM
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Fom: info@harnessracingupdate.com
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 2:48 PM
To: Jerry Knappenberger
Subject: Pena To Be Suspended, Sources Say
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Dear Subscriber,
Controversial harness trainer Lou Pena will be suspended indefinitely later this afternoon by the New York State Racing & Wagering Board, according to a source. The board plans to announce that Pena is being cited with roughly 1,700 drug violations, the source said. Sources tell Harness Racing Update that through the cooperation of the New Jersey Racing Commission, New York authorities were able to obtain Pena
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Your welcome...........for everyone who thinks we are a bunch of crooks...........1700 violations taken from veterinarian records.............VET RECORDS!!!!!! slaphead
What a "F'ING" can of worms this is going to open up! 4pezz2 4pezz2 4pezz2 4pezz2
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Then again........if what is in these records is actually "daming"...........I guess Pena DID get caught........unlike what Bungalow Bill would like us all to believe.........."they" don't continue to run wild.
Why no mention of the vet?
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what a can of worms this is going to open up on the racing industry that we all will have to pay dearly for. 4pezz2
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As the great Terrell Ownes once said.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
I overheard a vet talking about the condition of these animals and it was scary stuff.
I do believe he shuold be arrested for one or both of 2 things.
1. he perpetrated a confidence game against the public.
2. Animal creulity. These animals were abused. There is no other word to say what was done to them but abuse.
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slaphead
We have NO IDEA what was in these vet bills.
A licensed veterinarian!
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So......for all the gamblers.......will you all be back to the tracks in droves this weekend?
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Pena got popped for ACTH? ??? How could anyone ever give that to a horse the day before they race? I thought it was better off to use on the day of the race? I didn't see any dexamethasone. Next thing you know they will be saying that stuff is bad. And would sublimaze, acepromazine, sodium edecrin, Clotol, albuterol, winstrol v, and equipoise also fall in this category?
slaphead
Have to wonder if this falls under a federal HIPPA violation: turning over one's patient records for outside scrutiny....and what is the statute of limitations on such violations??????????
Lou Pena better call the law offices of Renee Mancino immediately!
idunno idunno dorkusinterruptus 4pezz2
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I just looked at the list...........I'm in near tears. :-[
Where are the designer drugs and epogen? idunno
No......we are CRUCIFYING this sport over Advil and Halls cough drops...........I'm sick.
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So......for all the gamblers.......will you all be back to the tracks in droves this weekend?
I will be at Rosecroft with bells on. The last 3 days of the srping meet :)
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I think getting him out is good for the sport.
Sure its like busting Al Capone on tax evasion instead of murder.
But he deserved to be sent to Alcatraz.
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I hope you are right...........I just have a bad bad feeling in my gut.......and it's a big gut to have feelings.
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Then again........if what is in these records is actually "daming"...........I guess Pena DID get caught........unlike what Bungalow Bill would like us all to believe.........."they" don't continue to run wild.
Why no mention of the vet?
Single me out, when the whole industry is in decline for these very reasons? "they" do indeed continue to run wild. The fact no designer drugs were detected should be a hint..Hell, they couldn't even detect the LEGAL drug overages they are alleging in this ruling, could they? Where are all the pre/post race positives on these horses? Well? Ya reckon they could find designer drugs to boot? Really? Trust me, I am not alone in this obvious assesment, so in the future attack the problem and not the poster. Perception IS reality, and the facts thus far suggest a governing body that is out of control, cannot/has not enforced it's own rules, and can't even pre/post race properly. Enough to erode public perception in anyones book. It wasn't me....just a glance at the grandstands and asking around about the reputation of the sport says it all. Yonkers is a disgrace for allowing this to happen. Blame that on me too rflmao1
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No need to be a Drama Queen........I signaled you out due to prior conversations.
I'm happy you are happy.
Like I said......I am assuming gamblers will be returning to the track in droves now that the evil war lord has been vanquished.
But then you are saying "doping" is rampant........so why do you go to the track period? idunno
What is sad is who may actually get the last laugh.........and this may be Pena when all is said and done.
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No need to be a Drama Queen........I signaled you out due to prior conversations.
I'm happy you are happy.
Like I said......I am assuming gamblers will be returning to the track in droves now that the evil war lord has been vanquished.
But then you are saying "doping" is rampant........so why do you go to the track period? idunno
What is sad is who may actually get the last laugh.........and this may be Pena when all is said and done.
One of your assumptions is incorrect (surprise...) I don't go to the track. You are correct however when stating "I dunno" Hope you and Louie save the reputation of harness racing and its evil accusers, all of wich are liars and miscreants. Don't worry...we always knew.
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You don't want a logical conversation.....you just want to be mean. thumbsdown
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You don't want a logical conversation.....you just want to be mean. thumbsdown
Don't be sad. Dont be mad. Rose colored glasses are supposed to be FUN thumbsup
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I actualy thnk there are people who goto the track to bet and lose and complain.
Thats thier sole attraction to the sport.
I take crap too cause when I lose betting I am still having fun.
Lots of people on these forums. Other places way more than here.
Only complain and cry about everything. I do not understand it.
If I hated it all and everything about it.
I wouldnt be following it.
I used to follow Pearl jam around. over 100 shows all over north america. Got to knwo people and knwo everyone really. Was a big part of my life.
They suck now. So guess what they are off my radar.
I am no longer going or buying whatever thier new record is.
But I also am not reading or posting at thier forums and going there to bash them. Why would I?
I dont care.
Its something I never got. But it seems some people love the misery.
4pezz2 4pezz2 4pezz2 4pezz2
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Using the head banging into a wall icon as that ( a person banging their head into a wall) not to infer I am talking about Pezz if that icon is his personal one.
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Using the head banging into a wall icon as that ( a person banging their head into a wall) not to infer I am talking about Pezz if that icon is his personal one.
Hows Dan?
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Hows Dan?
rflmao1 rflmao1
really ?
Anyway back to topic at hand.
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So Correct me if I am wrong please, just got home.
They suspended him, by not actually having a positive on a horse ( or 700 of them) but by going on his Vet records for stuff people use everyday?
Is that what I am reading?
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So Correct me if I am wrong please, just got home.
They suspended him, by not actually having a positive on a horse ( or 700 of them) but by going on his Vet records for stuff people use everyday?
Is that what I am reading?
Yes.
Giving things you arent supposed to give within a certain amount of time.
It does create a scary presedent.
And my analogy of Al Capone ging to jail for tax evation sums it up.
Wish they could get the drugs that were making him the super trainer but they are still undectable.
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That is precisely what you are reading. Sort of reminds me of Al Capone's saga. shootme
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I would say gmta, but it applies to neither of us. rflmao1
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That is precisely what you are reading. Sort of reminds me of Al Capone's saga. shootme
Wow. But I will say this, 1700? Umm He does know what the times out for these common drugs are doesn't he?
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Wow. But I will say this, 1700? Umm He does know what the times out for these common drugs are doesn't he?
I would think he would know the guidelines. What I would love to know is if these are just guidelines or bonafide cut and dry rules. Used to be if you got no positive, you were legal.
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Wow. But I will say this, 1700? Umm He does know what the times out for these common drugs are doesn't he?
Does this seem like a common drug?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuterol
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Does this seem like a common drug?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuterol
Thanks thumbsup
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Does this seem like a common drug?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuterol
That is without equal the greatest therapeutic drug on earth for horses with breathing problems. Should be legal even on race day.
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Thanks thumbsup
I looked up almost all the drugs that were listed and it seemed like a majority of them were to make it easier to breathe. I can see a horse going a few seconds faster on the first start for Pena on the clenbuterol (or if any trainer gave it to a horse for the first time)
If they were to make those drugs legal trainers could be selective in when they wanted to give it to a particular horse and make a fortune at the windows.
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Does this seem like a common drug?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuterol
OMG!
In treating a sick horse?! Absolutely!
And further more.....IT ISN'T FOUND IN A BARN IN AN INJECTABLE FORM! It is given by oral administration. Your vet gives you the bottle and instruction on oral administration in which you HAVE to stay so many days out.
We ALWAYS have a bottle of clenbuteral in the barn!
This is why I want to PUKE!
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OMG!
In treating a sick horse?! Absolutely!
And further more.....IT ISN'T FOUND IN A BARN IN AN INJECTABLE FORM! It is given by oral administration. Your vet gives you the bottle and instruction on oral administration in which you HAVE to stay so many days out.
We ALWAYS have a bottle of clenbuteral in the barn!
This is why I want to PUKE!
So one week your horse does horrible and gets put on the drug the next day, and the next week you could be giving it to the horse and it can have a sudden form reversal? And I and the rest of the wagering public wouldn't know about it?
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But these drugs are not Halls and Advil as you try to claim.
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If they were to make those drugs legal trainers could be selective in when they wanted to give it to a particular horse and make a fortune at the windows.
Jeremy.....this is SO untrue!
For that matter you might as well say........a trainer can FEED their horse that week (and the types of feeding combinations are endless) and make a fortune at the windows.
THESE ANIMALS CAN NOT, WILL NOT AND HAVE NEVER STAYED HEALTHY ON HAY OATS AND WATER.
To expect them to do so is cruel..........terribly cruel.
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So one week your horse does horrible and gets put on the drug the next day, and the next week you could be giving it to the horse and it can have a sudden form reversal? And I and the rest of the wagering public wouldn't know about it?
And go look over years of my posts..........what have I said? I have ZERO problem with making this knowledge public. ZERO!
I'd much rather be thought of as taking proper care of my animals than neglecting them!
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But these drugs are not Halls and Advil as you try to claim.
Sarcasm.............but not far off.
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Jeremy.....this is SO untrue!
For that matter you might as well say........a trainer can FEED their horse that week (and the types of feeding combinations are endless) and make a fortune at the windows.
THESE ANIMALS CAN NOT, WILL NOT AND HAVE NEVER STAYED HEALTHY ON HAY OATS AND WATER.
To expect them to do so is cruel..........terribly cruel.
Really? Where can I see what change in medicine prescriptions a horse is given over the course of a week?
I run enough to know what a difference being able to breath easy does to my time.
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Sarcasm.............but not far off.
You can't have a serious debate on this topic with sarcasm with your position as a horsemen's rep.
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Actually.......after a few phone calls I've got tonight........I am SO beginning worry about the New York wagering board shooting not only themselves in the foot over this, but HARNESS racing in general............and if it is true what I am being told.........the resulting future legal battles could end up being a crushing blow to us all.
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You can't have a serious debate on this topic with sarcasm with your position as a horsemen's rep.
I can start off a Facebook post with it.
And to answer your above question..........just like letting the public know if a horse is racing out of the field for the week.......good or bad for the horse? How many miles was it jogged? DId it swim? Go on the walker? Get a bran mash two or three times? Or never.
Was the horse shod? Did it really need shod? Did the horse tye up earlier in the week and get treated?
Every horse.........is different.......everyday the care of the horse may be different.
To say I treated a horse with Clenbuteral that week........staying out in the prescribed time set by the OSRC.........makes me a crook..........is just as ridiculous as you sucking on a Halls before you head out for a run.
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Or popping a couple Advil for sore knees before heading into the office.
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As a trainer, I always felt that every person betting $2 on my horse should have the best shot possible to cash his or her ticket. I felt it was my responsibility to put only a fit horse out there every week. That being said, I rarely wanted my horse on top until the finish. That shortens careers in my opinion.
I never gave one of mine a painkiller other than bute or dexamethasone...but I would give whatever was legal at the time to help one breathe. If you take a reasonably sound horse, hang him up properly, then train the piss out of him, and get him to breathe, he will usually try very hard for you....even if McKirgan drives him.
thumbsup
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And I and the rest of the wagering public wouldn't know about it?
There more I read this the more my opinion is solidified............the dropping of the ball isn't with the horsemen skirting the edges and not doing their jobs properly......it's with the racing commissions!
As gary just pointed out about proper care...........99.9% of us take proper care of our horses.......and have 0% problem with anyone let alone the betting public knowing this......so where does the actual beef lie?
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I can start off a Facebook post with it.
And to answer your above question..........just like letting the public know if a horse is racing out of the field for the week.......good or bad for the horse? How many miles was it jogged? DId it swim? Go on the walker? Get a bran mash two or three times? Or never.
Was the horse shod? Did it really need shod? Did the horse tye up earlier in the week and get treated?
Every horse.........is different.......everyday the care of the horse may be different.
To say I treated a horse with Clenbuteral that week........staying out in the prescribed time set by the OSRC.........makes me a crook..........is just as ridiculous as you sucking on a Halls before you head out for a run.
Where did I say that it would make you a crook? We are in agreement the public needs to be more informed.
At the same time there have been trainers at the track who I wouldn't bet any race they were in because I didn't trust the results, any wouldn't put my scenario past them to score at the windows.
Halls are far weaker than prescription medicine and I have no shot of getting any monetary benefit.
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This is the begining of the end of racing. If these charges are allowed to stand trainers everywhere are done. The tree huggers and animal rights idiots have won. They will be taking your kids and your paycheck next cause you don't know how to raise'em or spend your check properly. shootme
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And yes I do blame the racing commissions
Trainer change from Jeff Maletz to Tricia Shepard
90 days later
Trainer change from Tricia Shepard to Jeff Maletz
45 days later
Trainer change from Jeff Maletz to Tricia Shepard
process repeated itself for awhile
A certain driver at the track is pretty good at going first over and fading on favorites
I don't care for the most part if horses are on prescription medicine, I just need to know
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I don't care for the most part if horses are on prescription medicine, I just need to know
That would violate doctor/patient privilege and HIPPA.
If you are going to trust the driver, why not trust the trainer and the vet too?
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That would violate doctor/patient privilege and HIPPA.
If you are going to trust the driver, why not trust the trainer and the vet too?
I don't think that rule exists for equines
I gave an example of a driver I don't trust, just didn't want to name names
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What does levothyroxine or Gonadorelin do for a horse ?
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What does levothyroxine or Gonadorelin do for a horse ?
I dunno. I would imagine anything having to do with gonads is a hormone. The other sounds like some sort of gland thing too, but I really have no idea.
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My contention is not whether any of these drugs are therapeutic and not whether they should be allowed at any time. My problem is this: Why can "X" number of trainers adhere to whatever the rules are (whether stupid or not) while others simply cannot follow them? Seriously, is it lack of education? Inability to process information and ramifications? Lack of reading skills? Or is it they want to get an edge? Whatever the reason, they cheated. They didn't follow the rules. If they really got an edge or not isn't the issue with me. Its that they can't follow rules.
Now, if you think all of these drugs should be used any time, any place....then fight for rule changes. But until there are changes, people need to follow the rules. If all of this is minor, then it makes horsemen-or at least this horseman and vet- look absolutely crazy and stupid for risking a reputation when they arent really gaining anything. If the reward wasn't that great, then he was stupid for pushing the proverbial envelope. I just read a comment(elsewhere) about the outlets that this story was passed on to by someone. NY Times, NY Daily News, USA Today and about 10-12 other places. And a trainer is willing to break rules by using something "minor" and risk this kind of publicity?
Suck it up, follow rules, and if you don't like the rules...fight for change. Get your clinical information, round up some respected sources and make your presentation to encourage rule changes. By the way, with much respect to Gary, fighting for change on any of these message boards isnt going to be a successful approach.
So I repeat: Why can the vast majority of horsemen follow rules flawlessly while others repeatedly demonstrate they are incapable?
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I did a little reading at the NYS racing commission website that is until I got a headache. But to answer one question that was posed, the vet has to turn over any records that the racing commission requests in NY State.
One of the items that the trainer was possibly negligent on was the work done regarding the joint injections...the rule is the horse cant race for at least 5 days and the commission must be notified by the trainer in writing that this work was done before the horse can get entered.
I don't get how the vet won't be held accountable a little bit in this case. There are a couple of things that it pretty clearly says is the vet's responsibility. Like this: (copy/paste)
Before a licensed veterinarian administers or prescribes any drug or restricted substance for a horse, he shall ascertain by reasonable inquiry whether the horse has been entered to race at any track and if the horse has been entered he shall not administer or prescribe any drug or restricted substance within the time or in a manner restricted by this Part.
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Amy is sharing a view many horse people have shared with me. Shes not alone.
Bottom line the go go crap that was making his horses 5 seconds faster in a week is not what he got busted for.
Everyone knows that was present.
But nt detectable.
This is a very complex topic and they either need to goto running them on hay and oats again or allow anything.
The unlevel playing field is the issue and whats killing the sport.
Make everything illegal and at least its level playing field.
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This is the begining of the end of racing. If these charges are allowed to stand trainers everywhere are done. The tree huggers and animal rights idiots have won. They will be taking your kids and your paycheck next cause you don't know how to raise'em or spend your check properly. shootme
Interesting take.
IMO its the crying of the bettors and fellow horseman that are making this happen.
I know I would not bet a race his horses were in.
thats bad for the sport and they are trying to do something about that.
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Make everything illegal and at least its level playing field.
And harmful to a horse.
There are different classifications for drugs for a reason.
There should NOT be different rules governing those rules from state to state.
Who knows........maybe in the long run this is going to be such a mess commissions are going to finally be forced to reform..........standardize the penalties and program REPORT the treatment information.
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And yes I do blame the racing commissions
Trainer change from Jeff Maletz to Tricia Shepard
90 days later
Trainer change from Tricia Shepard to Jeff Maletz
45 days later
Trainer change from Jeff Maletz to Tricia Shepard
There have been several changes to the OSRC policies since these incidents. thumbsup
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And harmful to a horse.
There are different classifications for drugs for a reason.
There should NOT be different rules governing those rules from state to state.
Who knows........maybe in the long run this is going to be such a mess commissions are going to finally be forced to reform..........standardize the penalties and program REPORT the treatment information.
I fully understand that its bad for the horse.
I m actaully 100% for the good honest horsemen out there.
You being at Northfield and me following Rosecroft where the purses are not crazy we dont have to deal with the "super" trainers.
Whatever sweet Lou was giving that was undetectable costs more than what the purses that are given out. And for me thats a big reason I prefer those kind of tracks over the slots inflated purse tracks that have all the "super" trainers.
Whatever system that is in place now isnt working though.
They need to do nothing and let it be the wild wild west or test their asses off and make the penalties so harsh that you wouldnt want to break the rules.
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The more I read about this, this was a Witch Hunt.
Yes I understand that the timing issue is what they got him on, and I have said this before, every state needs to have the same rules, and he should of followed those rules.
The Al Capone comparison is right on. He has yet to have a positive....
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Why would anyone think racinos give a damn about racing? The more blows that can be delivered the better for them. The churn is much greater on the slots and makes more money for them. I predict that in the not too distant future most slot tracks will limit racing to maybe 30-45 days a year. The states will continue to take more and more of the cut. Look at Prarie Meadows and what do they have? Maybe 15 harness racing dates, if it won't be done away with alltogether.
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this writer is insane. Why does he bring up NYRA in this story like it is relevant? NYRA is in charge of the runners, thats it.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/horse_racing/trainer_suspended_for_drugged_horses_Hxgi8dfm7WpBGDawqpjGDM?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=Horse%20Racing
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Why would anyone think racinos give a damn about racing? The more blows that can be delivered the better for them. The churn is much greater on the slots and makes more money for them. I predict that in the not too distant future most slot tracks will limit racing to maybe 30-45 days a year. The states will continue to take more and more of the cut. Look at Prarie Meadows and what do they have? Maybe 15 harness racing dates, if it won't be done away with alltogether.
Aren't slot machines "fixed"? Let's say I go to the casino everyday, feed in a twenty-dollar bill, and "pull" the slots lever for one hour. What will be my R.O.I. at the end of the year? Aren't slot machines fixed to make me a loser the longer I play?
Where's the outrage? By the way, these questions are not intended to be a justification for cheating at the races. I just find it ironic that one kind of "cheater" is poised to benefit from the "cheater" label being pasted, fairly or unfairly, on the forehead of the horse racing industry.
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Aren't slot machines "fixed"? Let's say I go to the casino everyday, feed in a twenty-dollar bill, and "pull" the slots lever for one hour. What will be my R.O.I. at the end of the year? Aren't slot machines fixed to make me a loser the longer I play?
Where's the outrage? By the way, these questions are not intended to be a justification for cheating at the races. I just find it ironic that one kind of "cheater" is poised to benefit from the "cheater" label being pasted, fairly or unfairly, on the forehead of the horse racing industry.
thumbsup thumbsup
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Maybe 15 harness racing dates, if it won't be done away with alltogether.
If all our vet records come under such intense scrutiny over mundane treatments there won't be anyone left to race anyway.
Our vet works closely with the OSRC.......he attends all meetings and is used by them in an advisory manner...........at yesterday's meeting they were set to adapt a new set of rules regarding withdraw times.............Doc said this is all well and good but what are the times? So they hand him a list of times from three different states Pa. Kentucky and Indiana.........I'm not exactly sure but I think he said Robaxin is 5 days out in Indiana but 2 in Pa........so he asked them.........which guideline do I go by? Well they didn't know. slaphead So then he points out to them.......I'll be more than glad to follow the rules if you tell me just exactly what the rules are.
I have to run now........I have three horses in to go tomorrow who need nebulized...........I feel like such a crook. :-\
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Aren't slot machines "fixed"? Let's say I go to the casino everyday, feed in a twenty-dollar bill, and "pull" the slots lever for one hour. What will be my R.O.I. at the end of the year? Aren't slot machines fixed to make me a loser the longer I play?
Where's the outrage? By the way, these questions are not intended to be a justification for cheating at the races. I just find it ironic that one kind of "cheater" is poised to benefit from the "cheater" label being pasted, fairly or unfairly, on the forehead of the horse racing industry.
They are set to return a fixed % to the house in the long run. That% could be anywhere up to maybe 15%.. So, just as in racing, part of the pot goes to the house. In the long run the % makes you a loser at slots and betting on racing. In the short run, both slots and race betting can return a profit . So, if you put $100 in a slot macine and play for an hour you may end up with nothing or have a profit of even thousands of dollars. In the course of that hour, you may have bet$1000 even though you only put in $100. In racing it is the same. If you start with $100 you may end up with $1,000, but actually put $1200 or more through the windows. It's sort of like name your poison.
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I think you will find we will have the Feds involved sooner than later, and as Amy sad the can of worms is open. All these states have got to got together and set up the times for the vets to adminster drugs and all for the same states, thats why I say the Feds will get involved
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Trainer's license for rent to the highest bidder! 100% clean, never a fine nor a suspension. Bidding will start at $500,000, non-refundable. You get one hot test, you gone.
dorkusinterruptus rflmao1
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Pena suspended in PA; horses all scratched
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May 25, 2012 Send To A Friend | Print View
Trainer Lou Pena's Pennsylvania racing license has been suspended in reciprocity to the indefinite suspension imposed Thursday by the New York State Racing and Wagering Board for an alleged 1,700 drug violations over a two-year period. Pena's four horses that were scheduled to race Friday afternoon at Harrah's Philadelphia were scratched and his five entries on Sunday have also been scratched, including Stacked Deck from the $100,000 Betsy Ross Mares Invitational.
Harnessracing.com on Friday afternoon received the following from the Pennsylvania Harness Racing Commission regarding Pena: "Pursuant to the investigation conducted by the New York Racing Commission and their findings involving licensee Luis Pena; the Pennsylvania Harness Racing Commission immediately suspends the owner/driver/trainer license Mr. Pena currently holds in reciprocity until further notice."