Question about Northfield purse vs handle

[3 wide and wingin]

Race 5 on Tuesday was a 1,600$ purse.

With over 95,000$ bet into the wager pools ( WPS. exacta, trifecta)


I am sure most of you know al the back story.

But I don't.

Why and how is this happening?

Feel bad for the horsemen.

[LVGaryD]

Most of the money in the pool is from simulcasting dollars. The horsemen signed a deal for very low simulcast sharing dollars many years ago. The people I hold responsible for this….let's just say I have zero respect for to this day. Total lack of foresight and a sell out to Ohio horsemen, in my humble opinion.

[3 wide and wingin]

Most of the money in the pool is from simulcasting dollars. The horsemen signed a deal for very low simulcast sharing dollars many years ago. The people I hold responsible for this….let's just say I have zero respect for to this day. Total lack of foresight and a sell out to Ohio horsemen, in my humble opinion.

When is the deal up?

Do they get anything from the simulcasting money at all?

Someone is making money that's for sure.

when the driver of a 5th place horse makes 4 dollars in a race with 95000$ in the pools its hard to believe.

When the pools are 65 times the purse would think it would be tempting to have lack of integrity for some.

I do not follow it enough to really know about that.

But it would always be in the back of my mind if I followed the track.

[LVGaryD]

When is the deal up?

Do they get anything from the simulcasting money at all?

Someone is making money that's for sure.

when the driver of a 5th place horse makes 4 dollars in a race with 95000$ in the pools its hard to believe.

When the pools are 65 times the purse would think it would be tempting to have lack of integrity for some.

I do not follow it enough to really know about that.

But it would always be in the back of my mind if I followed the track.

I believe the drivers get $15 minimum if the horse gets a check. They get a tiny percentage of simulcasting dollars, exactly what it is, I have forgotten. Someone else will have to answer when the deal is up-that is beyond my scope of knowledge.

[3 wide and wingin]

I believe the drivers get $15 minimum if the horse gets a check. They get a tiny percentage of simulcasting dollars, exactly what it is, I have forgotten. Someone else will have to answer when the deal is up-that is beyond my scope of knowledge.

Mine too.

Thanks for some info.

Its a weird situation.

[beans and weenies]

 The horsemen got sold down the river for life  when they threatened to strike at Northfield years ago.  Wonderful horsemen representation caved in (secretly)  and sold out to management and it was put up,  shut up or get out.  I think the agreement might be up sometime in my lifetime but I'm getting old so maybe not. 

[badolpuddytat]

I know that the TB's did not come to terms with mngmnt. at Thistledown this past year. They the horsemen, wouldn't allow Thistledown to send their signals to simulcasting outlets but Thistledown did bolster the purses because of their racino. (Not that people are breaking down the door betting Thistledown) Look at Beulah, their purses are like 3000.00 YIKES!!! Hell even I raced at NFLD 20 to 30 years ago and raced for MORE MONEY THAN THEY GET NOW!!!!

[careless hal]

It's a big problem here in IL also.  Only a minimal amount of the ADW go to the purse account, yet it accounts for the largest part of the handle.  I know when it first started obviously the tracks and horsemen didn't know what to expect.  Are these contracts eternal?  Unless the horsemen demand a reasonable cut, the sport is dead.  We all know those slot dollars will in time go away.  Where is the USTA?  One would think that unless all tracks and horsemen demand a fair share and  stick to it, we are screwed.

[3 wide and wingin]

It's a big problem here in IL also.  Only a minimal amount of the ADW go to the purse account, yet it accounts for the largest part of the handle.  I know when it first started obviously the tracks and horsemen didn't know what to expect.  Are these contracts eternal?  Unless the horsemen demand a reasonable cut, the sport is dead.  We all know those slot dollars will in time go away.  Where is the USTA?  One would think that unless all tracks and horsemen demand a fair share and  stick to it, we are screwed.

If I was a driver in a race where there is 80$ dollars total in the drivers (top 5) pay outs.
With  95,000$ wagered.

Id be unhappy.

You would think the track would not want this big a gap.
So they might put some money into the purse.

Im suprised the pools are so large.

If I bet the track a lot Id always be thinking about how little the drivers and horseman are making.

[LVGaryD]

Once again, the minimum the drivers get is $15 if the horse gets a check. That would put the total driver's money to well over $100 for the race....$105 to be exact.

 

[3 wide and wingin]

Once again, the minimum the drivers get is $15 if the horse gets a check. That would put the total driver's money to well over $100 for the race....$105 to be exact.

 

Yes the 15 per is cool.

But that's not an incentive for trying to win.

so yes the winner of the race made 95. 80 bucks for the 5% plus 15?

The 5th place driver got 15 plus 4 dollars purse so he made 19$.

[LVGaryD]

No. The winning driver would get 5% of 50% of the purse-$40.
Second place=5% of 25% of the purse-$20. third-5th drivers would get $15. Total of $105 unless someone pays the drivers who drove so badly they didn't get the horse any money, or possibly someone tipped their driver.

The rule in Ohio is 5% or $15, whichever is more money. The driver is s.o.l. if the horse doesn't make money.

[AmyHollar]

First off..........you're wrong............"a deal" has nothing to do with the simulcasting fees, they are negotiated between the sending and receiving tracks.......the horsemen get their % as mandated by the state code.  NOT contracts.

When simulcasting came into fruition nearly 20 years ago the Ohio horsemen had one of the best "deals" in the country and Northfield Park management took the ball and ran with it....they built a virtual simulcasting empire monopolizing the entire state.  The same simulcasting money used to support $10,000 purses...........it no longer does and the reason why is not because of a bad "deal" the horsemen's association made. 

It's due to the changes in where your entertainment dollar goes now and the advent of internet wagering.

It amazes me how often I can explain this and yet the OHHA continues to get thrown under the bus.........I've got no problem with criticism but I prefer it be based in fact.

Just like I hear over and over again......"We don't get any money from the last two races of the night."  ........it's the same NO matter what race it is!

The reason Raceway Park would not sign a contract and we went on strike 17 years ago was mainly based upon the horsemen's % of the simulcasting and live handle handle, now you all are on here saying it was a bad deal? 


All the Ohio tracks are going to be paying between 11% and 9% on the VLTs when all is said and done based up the amount of money spent on their plants...........which is right in with the national average.............yet I guarantee when the slot money dries up in about 10 years it will be the OHHA who gets blamed for cutting a bad "deal".........in the mean time millions of dollars will STILL be wagered on line and with out proper tax representation.

And I hope I am dead wrong about the last sentence.

[LVGaryD]

So you're saying the OHHA made a good deal on simulcasting? 

[AmyHollar]

It's a big problem here in IL also.  Only a minimal amount of the ADW go to the purse account, yet it accounts for the largest part of the handle.  I know when it first started obviously the tracks and horsemen didn't know what to expect.  Are these contracts eternal?  Unless the horsemen demand a reasonable cut, the sport is dead.  We all know those slot dollars will in time go away.  Where is the USTA?  One would think that unless all tracks and horsemen demand a fair share and  stick to it, we are screwed.

You made a very good point about ADW (Advanced deposit wagering), when they started 99% of the world had no clue what the interent even was!

Ohio horsemen contracts were all 10 years but AGAIN let me point out, the simulcasting money is in the state code NOT contracts! And if anyone thinks a change of state code is an easy thing to do........think again.