In The Sulky Forum
General Category => General Harness Racing Discussion => Topic started by: maywoodmaniac on March 11, 2014, 11:05:08 AM
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I know the Meadowlands takes pride with its drivers colony and they were promoting the kids earlier in the meet.
With Pierce crossing the river for more money - just like Sears and Brennan did before him - and with Campbell suffering that freak ice skating accident, you would think Scott Zeron, Joe Bongiorno or Trace Tetrick might have taken advantage of the opportunity to step up.
Maybe too much was expected of Zeron or maybe he had everything go his way up in Toronto. I read the story saying he was getting the fifth best horse to drive in the race, and he was just happy to be at the Big M and learning.
So far I think he's a bust. Good drivers find a way to improve or move up their horses and he hasn't done it yet. There are times where he simply looks lost. Maybe he's still adjusting to life in the States. The good thing is he's young and has time on his side. But it's hard to put money on him, especially on Saturday nights.
Bongiorno is 19 and he drives like it. He has his moments, good and bad, and he's learning. But when I watch him on Saturday nights, he rarely looks comfortable. And some times with a speed horse, he's driving the first quarter like it's the stretch drive.
Trace looks lost and overmatched. I can't remember him winning a Saturday night race and with 6 wins all meet, his confidence is shattered. You have to figure he's counting the days until Hoosier reopens.
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I think Zeron has even fine for a rookie that hasn't been signed on for a true power stable. Look at a couple of top guys and the stables they drive for:
Gingras - 67 wins Drives for Burke - 38 wins. Top Call in many races
D Miller - 43 wins Drives for Ford - 11 wins. Top Call in many races.
Drives for Harris - 7 wins.
A Miller - 25 wins Drives for Julie - 11 wins almost half of total
Considering that Yannick, Tetrick, Dave Miller are all world drivers and have power stables behind them, Zeron is doing well... He'd be better than Andy if Andy didn't have his own stable. He's sitting fourth in place position finishes, and second in show finishes... That tells me he is putting his horses in good spots but just not quite good enough to win. I think he's done well but needs to be a little but more aggressive... Think he's actually fit in quite well for a rookie. Not having Sears, Pierce and Brennan there has helped him for sure, but he's held his own.
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Have to agree with the Maniac on all fronts. Zeron has been on alot
of mid priced horses 3-1 / 6-1 and running 3rd does make me any money.
Seems happy to run third. I am sure he will get better in time but for
now he is a tough win bet.
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Hey Dave, I think you make valid points.
You obviously do your homework and support your opinion well with the stats.
Callahan is getting the job done for Lewis. I could be wrong but I think all of Irvine's 11 wins have been with Bongiorno. And Zeron has done some driving for Alagna and has won with Abelard Hanover a couple of times recently.
When I have time to play the Meadowlands, it's only on Saturdays. From what I've seen, Zeron isn't getting the job done.
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You're right, he's a tough win bet at the moment, and I appreciate your kind words... He frustrates me by times as he prefers to come from off the pace mostly, and sometimes he's just too far back to be anything but third... Using him at the bottom of your exotics is a play I like right now as he often get a price horse in to third or fourth. As the season progresses, I think you'll see him improve.
Callahan has been very impressive - can be ultra aggressive at the right times which I like. Another guy that could be an elite driver if he picked up some top trainer's account.
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Frustrating is a good choice of words to describe Zeron at the moment. Case in point:
The 12th race last Saturday, he picks up a drive on the class dropping Arthur, who looks like he has a shot for the back end of the Exacta or Tri. Horse is in form with some big late moves at Yonkers so you figure the bigger track and longer stretch will help him. Keep in mind the horse won off the pace 4 starts back with a 1:56.1 mile over NW25000 and this was a B2 race.
Despite showing no speed on his lines, Zeron leaves like a bat out of hell and the horse was done long before he broke stride halfway down the stretch.
When something like that happens, all you can do is scratch your head and go "huh"?
And no sour grapes here. I had the winner and would have preferred Alsace Hanover to finish ahead of Tarpon Hanover, but that would have required Andrew McCarthy to do something... and that's a story for another time.
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I agree with you guys about Zeron. I think I'm still trying to figure out what his niche is. Speed doesn't seem to be his game and I see him making fundamental mistakes coming from off the pace. I also don't see him putting horses in a position to win, staying in when he should pull.
If races are going to be won or loss by a nose, I see him on the wrong side of the coin.
I was never a big fan of Trace, even in the Midwest. Time for Timmy to kick him off the couch so he can move back to Hoosier.
Bongiorno has his moments. I think he's best near the lead with a trip. I don't think he rates well on the lead or coming from off the pace. His drive on NOTREADYTOBENICE was horrible on Fri in race 4. He had clearance in the stretch to make a move on the outside, but ducks to the inside and then gets squeezed. I've had some nice payouts with him winning, so I guess I shouldn't complain.
Nice analysis, Dave. I'm a numbers guy and can appreciate that stuff.
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I agree Dave. Great job analyzing these guys. I think the young guns will learn in a few years from driving with the top guys. Look how many great drivers Dave Palone has taught invaluable lessons to. Driving with Yannick, David Miller, and Tim Tetrick, these young guns will learn if they have a brain.
CC, I never minded betting Trace Tetrick in Indiana, but there is a whole different breed of drivers out east, even without Pierce, Sears, and Brennan.
By the way, I certainly do not blame those guys for racing at Yonkers. They all probably are stashing $$$ away for retirement.
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You guys forgot about my favorite Marcus Miller.His drive Saturday on Little Bitty Lies made me some dough.
HN Horse PP 1/4 1/2 3/4 Str Finish Actual LQ Odds Driver Trainer
2 Perfect Alliance 2 2/1H 1/1Q 1/1 1/1H 1/4 1:52.2 28.1 *0.30 Andy Miller Julie Miller
5 Little Bitty Lies 5 4/5H 4/4 4/3Q 4/3H 2/4 1:53.1 28.2 42.40 Marcus Miller Erv Miller
1 Time To Quit 1 1/1H 2/1Q 3/1H 3/3H 3/4H 1:53.1 28.4 E3.50 Yannick Gingras Ron Burke
4 Ray Hall 4 3/3Q 3/2H 2°/1 2/1H 4/4T 1:53.2 29.0 9.20 Tim Tetrick Mark Harder
Earlier he had a winner for trainer Brian Ficher
HN Horse PP 1/4 1/2 3/4 Str Finish Actual LQ Odds Driver Trainer
8 Quik Magic 7 2/T 3/3 5/3 4/2Q 1/H 1:51.1 27.1 17.70 Marcus Miller Brian Fisher
3 Stars Above 3 1°/T 2/1H 3/1H 2/1 2/H 1:51.1 27.3 1.50 Tim Tetrick Bill Mac Kenzie
4 Exit Cam 4 3°/1H 1/1H 1/1H 1/1 3/2Q 1:51.3 28.1 *1.30 Andy Miller Julie Miller
1 New Kind 1 4/2Q 5/4H 6/4Q 6/3 4/3Q 1:51.4 27.3 17.20 Yannick Gingras Les Givens
9 Kostas Wine 8 8/9T 8/8Q 8/5H 8/4 5/3Q 1:51.4 27.2 8.90 Corey Callahan Mark Ford
6 Bigrisk 5 6/6H 6°/6Q 4°/2T 5/2H 6/5 1:52.1 28.1 29.50 Andrew McCarthy Virgil Morgan Jr
2 Nathaniel B 2 5/4Q 4°/4H 2°/1H 3/2Q 7/6Q 1:52.2 28.4 7.30 David Miller Gordon Barrett
7 American Paparazzi 6 7/8Q 7°/7T 7°/4Q 7/3T 8/11Q 1:53.2 29.1 54.30 Joe Bongiorno Thomas Di Bartolo
5 Shadow Margeaux SCR SK SCR Bruce Saunders
Time: 27.3 55.2 (27.4) 1:23.2 (28.0) 1:51.1 (27.4)
HN Horse Driver Win Place Show
8 Quik Magic Marcus Miller 37.40 11.00 4.00
3 Stars Above Tim Tetrick 3.20 2.20
4 Exit Cam Andy Miller 2.60
Win, Place, Show Pool: $85,299
Wager Type Numbers/Payouts Pool
Exacta (8-3 $143.60) $96,487
Trifecta (8-3-4 $370.00) $82,829
1st Quik Magic (4, G Quik Pulse Mindale - Magical Life - Badlands Hanover)
Registered Owner(s)/Lessee(s): Gloria Kinnamon - MD
Breeder(s): Winbak Farm - MD
** View Top 3 Finishers (+)
All told he had one winner a second and 3 thirds Saturday.
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Hal, I don't consider Marcus a rookie since I remembered him driving there last year.
What I didn't know until I looked it up was that he won 21 of 222 drives, which was good for ninth in the driver standings.
That drive he put on Quik Magic was a veteran move.
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I wonder if these guys read this board. Zeron had a great week with 7 wins, including 3 on Saturday. Congrats on the progress. What was impressive last night was how he got the job done.
He took advantage of a jump by See And Ski and a bad effort by Burkentine Hanover to win the 1st with Ontario Success. Big stretch move reminded me of some races his dad won in the past when he would come to Chicago in the winter and drive at Hawthorne.
Wake Up Peter didn't look good warming up but SZ got there in the final stride. And he absolutely stole it on the front end with Big Art in the 13th.
Joe Bongiorno learned a new move this week. You can't drive with your foot in mouth Joe. Rookie mistake so move on. Next week will be better.
Another tough Saturday night for Trace. Gets one more chance before going home to Indiana. Redemption time?
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I was lucky and caught Zeron on Ontario Success. I'd been watching him race at Woodbine and knew he had a good shot with the right trip... Still kicking myself that I didn't play him over the whole field as I had planned.
He had a solid night, the drive on a listless looking Wake up Peter was perfect.
I hope this week opens his eyes and puts him " over the top." I liked how he seemed to have the perfect mix of aggressiveness and intelligence. The horses that he had that had a shot were all put in a spot to succeed. Pierce almost wired them in the distance race! Solid week for the Z man.
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He had a solid night, the drive on a listless looking Wake up Peter was perfect.
Tony said that Wake Up Peter was always a total 'Sybill'... you never knew which personality was going to show up. He'd race like a monster, then one week later he couldn't out-run a fat man in an overcoat. Or he might decide to throw in a nasty break for no reason... or sulk at half speed for an entire mile. Just a trainer's nightmare.
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Zeron had this posted as his "driving schedule" on his Facebook page today:
Meadowlands- Friday + Saturday
Pocono- Sunday + Tues + Wed
Chester/Philly- Sun/Wed/Thurs/Fri (might leave early to make pocono)
Yonkers- Monday
That's the plan, still need drives lol
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All it takes is for me to bad mouth someone and they make me look bad.
Zeron looked like a different driver this week. Made all the right moves.
All I can say is congrats on a big weekend Mr. Zeron.
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All it takes is for me to bad mouth someone and they make me look bad.
Zeron looked like a different driver this week. Made all the right moves.
All I can say is congrats on a big weekend Mr. Zeron.
I wouldn't worry about it Kev's..you always look bad to me rflmao1 hammerhead1
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Dave:
If your boy Zeron isn't wiped out by Saturday night, he could make a statement with Gingras and Tetrick at Yonkers and Callahan not driving (vacation?)
Of his 12 drives Saturday night, 9 are rated at 9-2 or lower in the morning line. The other 3 are 6-1, 10-1 and 20-1.
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Dave:
If your boy Zeron isn't wiped out by Saturday night, he could make a statement with Gingras and Tetrick at Yonkers and Callahan not driving (vacation?)
Of his 12 drives Saturday night, 9 are rated at 9-2 or lower in the morning line. The other 3 are 6-1, 10-1 and 20-1.
CC is in Australia for the event down there.
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Just hope he does well MM. He's a good kid. thumbsup
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Scott Zeron doesn't know me from Adam, but he always acts like he knows me when he sees me. Unlike many people who actually know me, he doesn't run away when he sees me walking near him.
rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1
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4 Winners, 1 second, and 1 third tonight for the Z-man against a depleted driving colony.... Not bad at all!
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Seriously, it never fails. When a thread is made about a driver ripping them ( No Matter who it is) they get hot as hell right after.
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Some times it can be a good betting angle.
Two weeks ago I commented about Zeron, Bongiorno and Trace Tetrick. After the kind of success he had up in Canada, Zeron's Big M season had been disappointing.
Safe to say that he's turned things around for now and he might have had 5 last night if Wake Up Peter didn't make that break. He could stay hot with Gingras and Tetrick out of the picture for the next 5 weeks.
Besides last week's miscommunication, Bongiorno is 1-for 44 in the last 2 weeks and Trace did the right thing by going back to Indiana.
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I just can't accept Zeron as a rookie anywhere. He was a major driver on one of the top circuits and had driven at the Big M plenty, albeit not full time. It would be like a baseball team trading for a 5 year vet and saying he's a rookie with their team .
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I just can't accept Zeron as a rookie anywhere. He was a major driver on one of the top circuits and had driven at the Big M plenty, albeit not full time. It would be like a baseball team trading for a 5 year vet and saying he's a rookie with their team .
He had never driven at the Meadowlands until the fall meet that started in November
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Whatever. He's still not a rookie.
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He had never driven at the Meadowlands until the fall meet that started in November
rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1 Those zero drives were obviously plenty enough.
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rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1 Those zero drives were obviously plenty enough.
rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1
I'm laughing at calling a leading driver from a major circuit a "rookie"
As a matter of fact, when he was a leading driver there, it was a better circuit than M1.
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Even Ichiro Suzuki won rookie of the year despite having a professional career in Japan.
slaphead
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rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1
I'm laughing at calling a leading driver from a major circuit a "rookie"
As a matter of fact, when he was a leading driver there, it was a better circuit than M1.
And I'm laughing that you posted this:
You guys forgot about my favorite Marcus Miller.His drive Saturday on Little Bitty Lies made me some dough.
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Marcus had over 200 drives at M1 last year, yet you point out that he was forgotten? Marcus was also leading driver (or one of, not sure if he won a driving title) on a major harness circuit, and has won numerous races all across the East coast.
I think the term "Meadowlands Rookie" was intended to mean Rookie to the Meadowlands, not Rookie in general. As has already been pointed out, Zeron had NO drives prior to his jump to the Meadowlands last fall while Marcus has driven hundreds of times.
You can't have it both ways; you can't include Marcus yet feel the need to exclude Zeron.
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rflmao1 rflmao1 rflmao1
I'm laughing at calling a leading driver from a major circuit a "rookie"
As a matter of fact, when he was a leading driver there, it was a better circuit than M1.
It's cool we're all laughing at your childish responses since someone posted facts proving you were wrong. It's obvious you couldn't understand the term "Meadowlands Rookie" yet you couldn't help yourself by spewing a bunch of made up nonsense. Of course you had no problem posting about Marcus Miller being a rookie even though he had over 200 Big M drives and was a top driver on your favorite circuit.
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And I'm laughing that you posted this:
Marcus had over 200 drives at M1 last year, yet you point out that he was forgotten? Marcus was also leading driver (or one of, not sure if he won a driving title) on a major harness circuit, and has won numerous races all across the East coast.
I think the term "Meadowlands Rookie" was intended to mean Rookie to the Meadowlands, not Rookie in general. As has already been pointed out, Zeron had NO drives prior to his jump to the Meadowlands last fall while Marcus has driven hundreds of times.
You can't have it both ways; you can't include Marcus yet feel the need to exclude Zeron.
thumbsup thumbsup