In The Sulky Forum
General Category => General Harness Racing Discussion => Topic started by: NIATROSS on September 08, 2013, 08:45:11 AM
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first off i do think the capt is a very good horse.how good depends on how good the rest of the crop is.
next i have no problem with how the owners are managing the horse.it is their horse and their money
my vent is with the sport and how it is managed.
imo by passing on the jug the capt can never go down as one of the greatest.no same day double heat wins like naitross or others is a strike against.horses are also raced less than in the past
the sport should be all in on the key races with support from everyone not every track for themselves
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Yes, 'Tross I agree. SBSW cannot be placed in the top either.
Sport needs to change the Triple Crown events to M1 Pace, NA Cup & LBJ. Race them all within 6 weeks beginning on Hambo Day and offer at least $1 million to a Triple Crown winner.
Same general idea with trotting Triple Crown, inclusive of Yonkers Trot. Always include a race at 1/2 mile track, always include at least one two-heat race.
Long past time for some innovation & cooperation in this area.
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I get so tired of a hearing this argument every year when a horse skips the jug, well he'll never go down as one of the greatest. What a bunch of shit that is. To say Somebeachsomewhere isn't one of the best horses ever is just ridiculous. Would it have been nice to see him race and win the Jug sure, but it doesn't change my mind on how good of a horse he was because he didn't.
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with the huge amount they have at stake in stallion fees I don't blame them for skipping heat racing
if they needed the race they probably would have gone to it but by winning all he's won already they have the ability to skip the race
if it was eliminations a week before he probably would be there
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The horse would never get around a half .
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I get so tired of a hearing this argument every year when a horse skips the jug, well he'll never go down as one of the greatest. What a bunch of shit that is. To say Somebeachsomewhere isn't one of the best horses ever is just ridiculous. Would it have been nice to see him race and win the Jug sure, but it doesn't change my mind on how good of a horse he was because he didn't.
AMEN RNR. Every year some "big" horse skips the Jug and here goes the BS. skipping the jug or racing in the jug does not put a good horse into the "great" territory . How many horses have won the Jug and come up empty in the stud barn or piddled out after their 3 yr old year? It's just another good race on a half mile track. It is not the deciding factor in how good a horse is. I'm not taking anything away from the Jug. It is just another popular good stake race that means more to Ohio than the rest of the country. Ohio used to turn out shoulder to shoulder for Wednsday and Thrursday's card. We had full fields of horses filling a 16-20 race card. Now when Roger screams on Thursday that we have a new attendance record what a freaking joke. Back in the day you had to walk shoulder to shoulder to move along the backstretch to get to the midway to get a sandwich. Now You can walk very comfortably anywhere you want along the backstretch. Chairs used to be backed up almost to Todd's shedrow. Haven't seen that in years. Not only the was the grandstand was packed, the bleachers used to be filled top to bottom. They took 1/3 or them down and they still look like a ghost town on JugDay. You could sit almost anywhere you wanted in the grandstand last year. I have been here in Ohio all my life and been to every Jug since 1969. The last few years have been pathetic for this fairgrounds and the Jug and Jugette. When Roger screams " WE HAVE A NEW ATTENDANCE RECORD" I hope someone slams his mic down his throat. This topic always gets me fired up to other things about Delaware County fairgrounds. The barns have not had new roofs or maintained for the last 30 years. Water runs thru the roofs and the siding is so rotted it crumbles. Water hydrants are rusted so bad they leak all year round and can't get them fixed but we hear about the "expense of the horsemen's water" on the backside. We have had barns "full" for the last 5 -6yrs with horses training here year round. 150-170 head. We have nothing to show for our rent money but a 1/2 mile racetrack. ???????? But hey we paint all these barns that face the grandstand and make'em look good for a couple weeks. noway
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Horse shit you can't consider SBSW great because he didn't race the jug. He won everything he raced in, including multiple half mile tracks and heat racing, and equalled the fastest mile in the history of harness racing. He's also produced as a sire.
Give your head a shake, he got beaten once by a half a nose off a terrible trip by a horse that got every advantage and was never the same after.
SBSW has done everything a great horse should do... He beat Shadow Play every time he raced him, including the big mile first over in the rain at Yonkers.
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I get so tired of a hearing this argument every year when a horse skips the jug, well he'll never go down as one of the greatest. What a bunch of shit that is. To say Somebeachsomewhere isn't one of the best horses ever is just ridiculous. Would it have been nice to see him race and win the Jug sure, but it doesn't change my mind on how good of a horse he was because he didn't.
AMEN RNR. Every year some "big" horse skips the Jug and here goes the BS. skipping the jug or racing in the jug does not put a good horse into the "great" territory . How many horses have won the Jug and come up empty in the stud barn or piddled out after their 3 yr old year? It's just another good race on a half mile track. It is not the deciding factor in how good a horse is. I'm not taking anything away from the Jug. It is just another popular good stake race that means more to Ohio than the rest of the country. Ohio used to turn out shoulder to shoulder for Wednsday and Thrursday's card. We had full fields of horses filling a 16-20 race card. Now when Roger screams on Thursday that we have a new attendance record what a freaking joke. Back in the day you had to walk shoulder to shoulder to move along the backstretch to get to the midway to get a sandwich. Now You can walk very comfortably anywhere you want along the backstretch. Chairs used to be backed up almost to Todd's shedrow. Haven't seen that in years. Not only the was the grandstand was packed, the bleachers used to be filled top to bottom. They took 1/3 or them down and they still look like a ghost town on JugDay. You could sit almost anywhere you wanted in the grandstand last year. I have been here in Ohio all my life and been to every Jug since 1969. The last few years have been pathetic for this fairgrounds and the Jug and Jugette. When Roger screams " WE HAVE A NEW ATTENDANCE RECORD" I hope someone slams his mic down his throat. This topic always gets me fired up to other things about Delaware County fairgrounds. The barns have not had new roofs or maintained for the last 30 years. Water runs thru the roofs and the siding is so rotted it crumbles. Water hydrants are rusted so bad they leak all year round and can't get them fixed but we hear about the "expense of the horsemen's water" on the backside. We have had barns "full" for the last 5 -6yrs with horses training here year round. 150-170 head. We have nothing to show for our rent money but a 1/2 mile racetrack. ???????? But hey we paint all these barns that face the grandstand and make'em look good for a couple weeks. noway
Horse shit you can't consider SBSW great because he didn't race the jug. He won everything he raced in, including multiple half mile tracks and heat racing, and equalled the fastest mile in the history of harness racing. He's also produced as a sire.
Give your head a shake, he got beaten once by a half a nose off a terrible trip by a horse that got every advantage and was never the same after.
SBSW has done everything a great horse should do... He beat Shadow Play every time he raced him, including the big mile first over in the rain at Yonkers.
bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown bowdown
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I am highly disappointed by this decision, but I would rather have them skip the race than race in an elim and skip the Final. Still, he gets knocked down a notch or two in my estimation.
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I am highly disappointed by this decision, but I would rather have them skip the race than race in an elim and skip the Final. Still, he gets knocked down a notch or two in my estimation.
Yep. SBSW was DOMINANT except for one INCREDIBLE mile. He dominated every size of track and set records every where he went. I was pissed he skipped the Jug but understood. The Captain is a great horse. With that being said he couldn't carry SBSW's tongue tie. Vegas Vacation is probably the best 3YOC right now and will most likely win the Jug with or with Captain. It is my opinion that they are not sending him because they know he would most likely get beat.
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Vegas Vacation is probably the best 3YOC right now and will most likely win the Jug with or with Captain.
And your basing that on what ? CT beat VV all 4 times they raced against each other this year.
My guess is the owners know Captiantreacherous know he would never get around a half.
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My opinion for what it's worth . SBSW has to be the most beautiful horse I have ever seen. He is flat out awesome and his foals are winning stake races everywhere. Almost all of them are big natural athletes from the time they are born and a pretty sound lot too.
Captian can't get around a half? idunno Whether he ever races on one or not . He is AWESOME.
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And your basing that on what ? CT beat VV all 4 times they raced against each other this year.
My guess is the owners know Captiantreacherous know he would never get around a half.
I said right now. Yes, Captain got him a couple weeks ago on a monster mile. As I said, Captain is GREAT! However, I think VV is as sharp as any horse out there right now AND he can definitely get around the half. We will see. Should be great racing this next month!
Just my opinion based on watching the races. Wouldn't have said that two months ago.
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I said right now. Yes, Captain got him a couple weeks ago on a monster mile. As I said, Captain is GREAT! However, I think VV is as sharp as any horse out there right now AND he can definitely get around the half. We will see. Should be great racing this next month!
Just my opinion based on watching the races. Wouldn't have said that two months ago.
Should be fun watching them square off in Lexington
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Should be fun watching them square off in Lexington
the Captain has shown the ability to hold off charging horses on the mile track. Should be great racing across the board in Lexington!!
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Two total truths in this world:
We have no business going to war with Syria. Period.
Not winning two heats in one day on a half=complete and total lack of greatness.
Like it or not, that's the facts, laddies. thumbsup thumbsup
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I get so tired of a hearing this argument every year when a horse skips the jug, well he'll never go down as one of the greatest. What a bunch of shit that is. To say Somebeachsomewhere isn't one of the best horses ever is just ridiculous. Would it have been nice to see him race and win the Jug sure, but it doesn't change my mind on how good of a horse he was because he didn't.
people have different ideas on what defines greatness in all sports.mariano rivera is being halied as the greatest closer of all time.maybe he is but the game has changed in the last 20-25 yrs.starters who pitch 6 innings are hugely rewarded then you have middle relief befor the 9th inning guy comes in.
in harness racing the greats(they were called greats before i became a fan) in yrs past raced over all size tracks and raced and won double heats in the same day.i do not remember which race but sbsw did win 2 heats in one day.
imo also there will always be diiference of opinion of greatness just because of people's age groups when it coems to what is greater then something else
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Two total truths in this world:
Not winning two heats in one day on a half=complete and total lack of greatness.
Like it or not, that's the facts, laddies. thumbsup thumbsup
Total bullshit !!!
So you're going to tell me Rocknroll Hanover wasn't one of the all time greats ?
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Total bullshit !!!
So you're going to tell me Rocknroll Hanover wasn't one of the all time greats ?
P-Forty Seven was obviously a better horse....just like Shadow Play was clearly far superior to Somebeachsomehwere as well. slaphead slaphead slaphead
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Niatross - it was the Confederation Cup at Flamboro.
Heat 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZW98VEPyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Heat 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1WB9lMoBm8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Kinda beat up on Shadow Play who won the jug that year.
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If they can't win on a half, they are not great. here are the great pacers:
Niatross, Nihialtor, Bret Hanover, Henry T Adios, Ralph Hanover, Fan Hanover, Bullet Hanover, Knight Dream, Good Time, Tar Heel, Shadow Wave, Adios Butler, Most Happy Fella, Melvin's Woe, Rum Customer, Best Of All...
Those horses were great horses trained and driven by great horsemen. If they can't go on a half, pfffffttt.
bowdown bowdown bowdown
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Gary, Cam Fella!!!!!
Never leave out that GIANT when it comes to naming the great ones. Any track, any size, against anyone.
Why does it seem to be a given that CT cannot handle a 1/2 when he has no trouble on 5/8's? Just asking - do you guys know something I don't?
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Total bullshit !!!
So you're going to tell me Rocknroll Hanover wasn't one of the all time greats ?
Wasn't RNR Hanover hurt?
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Total bullshit !!!
So you're going to tell me Rocknroll Hanover wasn't one of the all time greats ?
thumbsup The lack of Knowledge is astounding slaphead
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Wasn't RNR Hanover hurt?
I can't remember Bret either he was hurt or he wasn't liking the half.
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Rock N Roll Hanover raced in the Jug. Was 2nd in the elim and 3rd in the final.
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I ran this morning and am running again tonight.
It seems like this thread is more of an opinion of tradition vs how things are done now. In my opinion the greats of one era would be great in any era.
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Not winning two heats in one day on a half=complete and total lack of greatness.
Like it or not, that's the facts, laddies. thumbsup thumbsup
Bottom line is the Jug isn't what it used to be .
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Why does it seem to be a given that CT cannot handle a 1/2 when he has no trouble on 5/8's? Just asking - do you guys know something I don't?
That question always pops up to me every time I hear the statement. I'm disappointed that he's not in the Jug also, since I have a standing invite to any winners circle with him. But he ain't my horse! His connections are trying to make the best decisions for his welfare.
I wish them the best and hope The Captain is HOTY and a huge success in the breeding shed. thumbsup
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Two total truths in this world:
We have no business going to war with Syria. Period.
Not winning two heats in one day on a half=complete and total lack of greatness.
Like it or not, that's the facts, laddies. thumbsup thumbsup
Oh great on please turn your calendar to the correct year, this is 2013 not 1913 noway shootme
The Jug is a great tradition but I'm sure when they started racing it there weren't scores of races where
the 3 Y/O's could make big money. The 3 Y/O's today go in 49 as easy as breaking sticks and there are
many races they can make more money without going 2 heats on a half noway It comes down to what
the connections want to do with their horse but racing or not racing in the Jug does not define a great
horse one way or the other. noway Them are the FACTS dorkusinterruptus
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AMEN RNR. Every year some "big" horse skips the Jug and here goes the BS. skipping the jug or racing in the jug does not put a good horse into the "great" territory . How many horses have won the Jug and come up empty in the stud barn or piddled out after their 3 yr old year? It's just another good race on a half mile track. It is not the deciding factor in how good a horse is. I'm not taking anything away from the Jug. It is just another popular good stake race that means more to Ohio than the rest of the country. Ohio used to turn out shoulder to shoulder for Wednsday and Thrursday's card. We had full fields of horses filling a 16-20 race card. Now when Roger screams on Thursday that we have a new attendance record what a freaking joke. Back in the day you had to walk shoulder to shoulder to move along the backstretch to get to the midway to get a sandwich. Now You can walk very comfortably anywhere you want along the backstretch. Chairs used to be backed up almost to Todd's shedrow. Haven't seen that in years. Not only the was the grandstand was packed, the bleachers used to be filled top to bottom. They took 1/3 or them down and they still look like a ghost town on JugDay. You could sit almost anywhere you wanted in the grandstand last year. I have been here in Ohio all my life and been to every Jug since 1969. The last few years have been pathetic for this fairgrounds and the Jug and Jugette. When Roger screams " WE HAVE A NEW ATTENDANCE RECORD" I hope someone slams his mic down his throat. This topic always gets me fired up to other things about Delaware County fairgrounds. The barns have not had new roofs or maintained for the last 30 years. Water runs thru the roofs and the siding is so rotted it crumbles. Water hydrants are rusted so bad they leak all year round and can't get them fixed but we hear about the "expense of the horsemen's water" on the backside. We have had barns "full" for the last 5 -6yrs with horses training here year round. 150-170 head. We have nothing to show for our rent money but a 1/2 mile racetrack. ???????? But hey we paint all these barns that face the grandstand and make'em look good for a couple weeks. noway
Mutter has spoken ! redrose bowdown redrose
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I ran this morning and am running again tonight.
It seems like this thread is more of an opinion of tradition vs how things are done now. In my opinion the greats of one era would be great in any era.
Yeah I ate this morning took a nap ate lunch and took another nap and now ready for dinner and it's
still going on. shootme Ima need a nap hammerhead1
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Bottom line is the Jug isn't what it used to be .
Correct. There are 3 races a 3 year old owner with a top horse really wants to win. NA CUP, Breeders Crown, Meadowlands Pace. in that order. The Captain has 2 of the 3 already
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Correct. There are 3 races a 3 year old owner with a top horse really wants to win. NA CUP, Breeders Crown, Meadowlands Pace. in that order. The Captain has 2 of the 3 already
I would agree with that. However, when the Jug becomes a million dollar race (and it will), it will become 1A next to either the NAC or the MP.
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Oh great on please turn your calendar to the correct year, this is 2013 not 1913 noway shootme
The Jug is a great tradition but I'm sure when they started racing it there weren't scores of races where
the 3 Y/O's could make big money. The 3 Y/O's today go in 49 as easy as breaking sticks and there are
many races they can make more money without going 2 heats on a half noway It comes down to what
the connections want to do with their horse but racing or not racing in the Jug does not define a great
horse one way or the other. noway Them are the FACTS dorkusinterruptus
thumbsup Skipper thumbsup
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I would agree with that. However, when the Jug becomes a million dollar race (and it will), it will become 1A next to either the NAC or the MP.
And When That happens, you will see the box over flowing.... Doesn't mean who wins it is a great horse cause they went 2 heats on a half in Delaware thou. Just means they were the better horse that day.
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And When That happens, you will see the box over flowing.... Doesn't mean who wins it is a great horse cause they went 2 heats on a half in Delaware thou. Just means they were the better horse that day.
Can't you say that about every race???
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My two cents, years ago you had big races that went two heats.Now there isn't. That meant a lot back then to the breeding, winning the jug. NOW???? I agree with Mutter about the fans. Been there when you almost couldn't breathe!! This isn't the only race or races that have kind of gone down. Look at the TB's!!!! you used to have only a small amount of Derby's(You used to get full fields, now maybe 4,5,6 horse fields)!! Now you have the Pa. Derby, WV Derby, Iowa Derby, Ill Derby, Super Derby,Ohio Derby ect ect ect. Hell even the Ohio Derby got Skip Away to come years ago. Now there are so many 3 yr old races the trainers and owners want to go where they can make the $$$$ with less starters, can't blame em!! So why race two heats? race one for $$$$$$$$ less chance of your horse getting hurt plus if you race two (OR THREE HEATS!!!!) then you might not have a horse to race in the near future!
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Can't you say that about every race???
yes. Wasn't a shot at you
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Wow. 4 pages. been interesting reading thumbsup
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Is Delaware really a 1/2 mile track? I was at the 2001 USTA Driving school, and it felt like a 5/8ths track with how wide and long the turns were. :)
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1/2 mile track. 5/8th mile turns. short stretches . It is actually egg shaped.
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1/2 mile track. 5/8th mile turns. short stretches . It is actually egg shaped.
Maywood is a lot that way too. They say "GO!" and you turn left. Sportsman's turns were surprisingly tight when it was a 5/8, but that made for long stretches.
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Bottom line is the Jug isn't what it used to be .
IMHO, the Jug is the best week of racing in North America. I remember as a small child hearing all about it from my Dad lilcheerleader
I have been blessed to be in attendance the past 6 years and CANNOT wait until Friday night when we will start experiencing our 7th Little Brown Jug week lilcheerleader
As we are all aware, harness racing has drastically changed from the 1960's and things maybe different from earlier Jug years but we can only focus (and enjoy) the now!!!!! We need to do our part to draw new blood into the sport and make it a family affair.
IMHO, there is nothing like walking in to pay your entry fee at the Log cabin and have John Campbell hold the door for you; getting woken up by good 'ole Roger screaming, "Good Morning Delaware" every morning; camping in the North Lot of the racetrack for the week with the amazing sights, sounds, and smell of Jug week; seeing horse people you haven't seen in 10-15 years and catching up like you've talked everyday; getting to witness the best trainers, drivers, and owners up front and personal....it's better than Christmas morning as a kid; my Disney World heartluv
God willing I will continue to enjoy it, plan my work Projects around it, dream and scheme about doing better than a 2nd place finish during Jug week, have our lil one's I heartluv GGG tshirt made to match with her cowboy boots and hat lilcheerleader rflmao1 - these are some things I personally can do to support the sport and have one hell of a time doing it .......
bowdown bowdown bowdown Little Brown Jug 2013 lilcheerleader lilcheerleader
Can't wait to see you all there THIS weekend and next week thumbsup
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IMHO, the Jug is the best week of racing in North America. I remember as a small child hearing all about it from my Dad lilcheerleader
I have been blessed to be in attendance the past 6 years and CANNOT wait until Friday night when we will start experiencing our 7th Little Brown Jug week lilcheerleader
As we are all aware, harness racing has drastically changed from the 1960's and things maybe different from earlier Jug years but we can only focus (and enjoy) the now!!!!! We need to do our part to draw new blood into the sport and make it a family affair.
IMHO, there is nothing like walking in to pay your entry fee at the Log cabin and have John Campbell hold the door for you; getting woken up by good 'ole Roger screaming, "Good Morning Delaware" every morning; camping in the North Lot of the racetrack for the week with the amazing sights, sounds, and smell of Jug week; seeing horse people you haven't seen in 10-15 years and catching up like you've talked everyday; getting to witness the best trainers, drivers, and owners up front and personal....it's better than Christmas morning as a kid; my Disney World heartluv
God willing I will continue to enjoy it, plan my work Projects around it, dream and scheme about doing better than a 2nd place finish during Jug week, have our lil one's I heartluv GGG tshirt made to match with her cowboy boots and hat lilcheerleader rflmao1 - these are some things I personally can do to support the sport and have one hell of a time doing it .......
bowdown bowdown bowdown Little Brown Jug 2013 lilcheerleader lilcheerleader
Can't wait to see you all there THIS weekend and next week thumbsup
weirdo
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weirdo
thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup noway